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Introduction and Recap of the Podcast

Introduction and Special Announcement

Catherine: if I'm gonna put in all this time and effort for a product, I wanna be so proud of it.

I wanna wear it myself. I wanna be excited to share it with others.

jasmine: Welcome to Make Good Fashion, the podcast that's all about starting, launching and growing impactful fashion brands.

I'm your host, Jasmine Rennie.

Hey friends. Welcome back to the make good fashion podcast. I can not believe this, but this is the final episode of the first season. And I am just so excited and so proud that I was able to get through a whole first season of this podcast. It's been so much fun connecting with the guests that have been on the podcast and just talking about this business that I love so much, that is the fashion business, and I hope that you guys have enjoyed it so far. If this is your first time listening to the podcast, make sure to go back and listen to all the episodes that came before.

There there've been some incredible guests and some incredible content. But I'm just so excited for everything that's to come and everything that's been [00:01:00] done so far. And I hope you guys have been enjoying it too. So make sure that you email us or write in the reviews, things that you want to hear in season two.

If you have some ideas for guests, you can email those too. And just let me know who you love. To hear on the podcast. And you can send those to your [email protected] or again, just leave it in a review. I appreciate you guys so much for just tuning in every week and just supporting the podcast. And , I'm super, super grateful for your. Your support.

Looking Forward to the New Season

So in the new season, there's going to be some amazing things to come.

So you guys have, make sure that you are subscribed to the podcast. So that you will never miss when we drop a new episodes and the new episodes, season two is going to be dropping in the new year in January. So you want to stay tuned for that.

Interview with Catherine Hess: The Journey and Challenges

So in today's episode I am interviewing Catherine Hess. Founder of Sienna and co and Sienna and co [00:02:00] is a sustainable swimwear line and they have just incredible pieces. So gorgeous and they really focus on creating pieces that make women feel confident in the things that they wear. Katherine has a background in technical design and just has a true love for fit and construction. And I love that so much because I know she puts her heart and soul into the product. This conversation is just a raw and candid conversation about the journey and the challenges. I have a startup entrepreneurial era.

So Catherine and I talk about the challenges that come with funding, your brand and sourcing, and just staying true to the integrity of who you are as a brand. And so I think you guys are really going to love this episode, and I love that we're ending off with this conversation, because I think it's so needed just to have , that transparent dialogue.

So. I hope you guys love the podcast again. Thank you so much for your support. Make sure to leave a review, send us some love and get caught up on [00:03:00] all the episodes. And we will be back in the new year. You guys. . I love you guys so much.

Now let's get into the episode.

jasmine: Catherine. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Hello. Thanks for having me. Of course, I'm so excited to learn more about what you're doing at Siena Co. but first I wanna kind of get, into your background and hear how you started and all of that good stuff.

Catherine: Yeah, absolutely. I um, went to a big public high school and we got to take a lot of elective courses and I took six sewing classes in high school and the time just flew and I just thought, man, if I need to do something for the rest of my life, this, I definitely wanted to be it. I got to then study apparel design in college and there was really great, I got to learn a lot about the industry and construction techniques of garments, but I think the biggest thing I learned in my schooling was the social injustices that happened in the apparel industry and that has really [00:04:00] informed just.

Totally how I look at the apparel industry, both as a consumer, but also yeah. Trying to make a brand and, and manufacture that way. So I got to work in the industry for a while and then Covid happened and I just thought, you know, this is the most free time I'm ever gonna have. I have no more excuses. I need to Yeah.

Start something on my own. And so I decided to design swimwear with CNN and company, and it just felt like that was the category that I haven't been able to find something, a swimsuit that has everything I wanted. So I just thought, okay, I guess if I can't find it, I need to make it. So that was the inception of Sienna and Company.

jasmine: That's amazing. I think that's the best way to come up with a brand is what is missing from the market.

The Importance of Building Relationships in the Fashion Industry

jasmine: So tell me about starting the brand how did you find your first manufacturer? How'd you go about that? Yeah,

Catherine: the, okay, so I. Found a pattern maker through a LinkedIn group for [00:05:00] like pattern makers.

And that's actually been the hardest thing to find as pattern makers because I think there are definitely are freelance pattern makers, but a lot are working full-time for other brands. And I just think our society is losing this skill that is so necessary and it really is a skill. Like if you have a bad pattern maker, your clothing is going to show and it's not gonna fit well, it's not gonna look good.

And my first job out of college, my supervisor helped teach me a lot about pattern making. So, and she was so talented. Well, to this day, she's like been the best mentor, but, so I do have an eye for pattern making, but I don't have as much experience with like all the CAD program and everything. Anyway, so I found a pattern maker on LinkedIn and then she knew the manufacturer that I first started with there in New York City.

And the first sample I got was beautiful. Like I couldn't have asked for more. And I went out there to meet them and I could tell the guy who ran the place was kind of like, I don't have time for [00:06:00] you. You're just a new startup. You know, I'm very established. I just wanna keep working with the bigger brands that I have.

He didn't say those words, but that was the vibe I was getting. And then sure enough, after I left him, he just ended up just ghosting me, just totally never responded. Oh my gosh. And that was hard because yeah, that was like a lead I had and he did good work, but I just thought, if he doesn't communicate with me, I can't work with him.

I can't trust him. So then the next thing I did was I went to another clothing company I really admire, and they posted on their website, all the manufacturers they work with. So I went down the line and I called every single one. And the manufacturer I now work with was the only one who picked up the phone.

Wow. And, and it's been so great. He's been so great. They're in LA so it's much closer to me. So I can drive there whenever I need to. He calls and checks on me like, Hey, I've, I haven't heard from you for a while. How are you doing? You know, what's the next step? Just a total 180 from the first [00:07:00] manufacturer.

So yeah, that's been working out really well.

jasmine: That's wonderful. And I love your grit that you would just dig that deep to find your manufacturer and a lot of times that's what you have to do. Cuz this industry, such a insiders industry. Yes. A lot of people don't wanna share information and mm-hmm. So it can be really hard.

And Yeah. Especially with smaller brands, a lot of these manufacturers don't wanna work with smaller brands. Yes. Cause you're not bringing in large quantities. Exactly. You know, you. Probably don't really know what you're doing all that much as a Yeah. Startup. And so, right. You know, they don't really give you the time of day, but that's why Exactly.

Building relationships mm-hmm. Is so important in this industry because once you find someone that's really good, they can lead you to another person. Yes. And another, and another. So you wanna really nurture those relationships and Yes. Yeah. Just build that way. Yeah. And I think they really

like to refer amongst each other.

Yeah. Like I found once you ask one supplier, manufacturer, Hey, do you know [00:08:00] anyone about this? Yeah. They have like three And they're really happy to refer you. Yeah. And then when you go to them, they're happy to refer you. So Yeah. It is almost like you just need to get one foot in the

Catherine: door and then.

Just be bold to ask. Yeah.

jasmine: Yeah. And they all wanna give each other business, you know? Yes. So it's really helpful to do it in that way, so, yep. Yeah. I always encourage new designers like, don't get discouraged. You just Yes. Kind of keep going until you find the right person. Yes. And the other thing is that these manufacturers are, you know, they have been around for quite a long time.

Mm-hmm. A lot of them don't really understand technology, so they don't have the means to like build a website. So you're not gonna be able to just Google and find one really easily. Yeah. Usually the ones that you're gonna find on Google are probably like upcharging you a lot. Yes, exactly. So yeah, it's good to do your due diligence and just mm-hmm.

Make friends in the industry network with other brands. And for me that was kind of hard because I'm very introverted, so I'm just like, I don't wanna talk to anybody. I don't [00:09:00] wanna be on social media. I don't wanna do this. I don't, you know but it kind of sets you back, you know, so you kind of get, gotta get outta your comfort zone.

Mm-hmm. Just ask questions, okay.

The Inception and Concept of Sienna and Company

jasmine: So where did the concept from Sienna and Company come from? Because you have such a beautiful brand identity and the pieces are gorgeous.

Like where did that concept come from? Yeah,

Catherine: thank you so much. I definitely think it kind of stemmed from, I got to study abroad in Italy Oh nice. In college. And so I spent some time in Sienna, Italy, so Wow. It's named after Sienna and then St. Catherine of Sienna. I just feel like the Italian women I encountered there basically just exude.

Yeah. The. What I want CNN company to embody just a woman who is confident in herself and therefore she can shine. I just feel like for myself, and I do think other women experience this as well, [00:10:00] when you think you look good, you just like, you're confident and you show up as your best self. And I guess that would be my goal for every woman is for you to just feel confident in who you are so that you can show up, present and be able to kind of show your best self to everyone you're encountering, whether it's, you know, your friends where you are, or if you have a family just showing up as your best self for them.

And so that's kind of the idea of the swimsuits that I design is how can you feel confident wearing the swimsuit so that you can basically forget about what you're wearing, right. So that you can focus on whatever else or whoever else you're with. Because I think that's a big thing is Yeah, when we are wearing.

Clothing or swims that where you don't feel comfortable in, you're like fidgeting and you're worrying more about, okay, what are other people thinking? How am I looking? But if you could just put something on that, you know, you feel confident in, you can forget about that and then move on to basically like more important [00:11:00] things than what you're wearing.

jasmine: Yeah. And I don't think you've mentioned on here, but we spoke about it and you were a technical designer Yes. Prior to starting your business. Mm-hmm.

The Role of a Technical Designer in the Fashion Industry

jasmine: So how has that kind of helped? And for those that don't know, can you just touch on a little bit about what a technical designer does? Because I think people hear the word technical designer and they're like, yes.

Oh, you're a fashion designer. Like, yep, you are. But in a different way, a different way that people don't really hear about.

Catherine: Yep. Yeah. The way I describe it is it's very much the fit and construction side of garment making. So, The biggest thing is we're in the fitting. So we're trying on the garments on a model so that you can see, okay, on a 3D person, woman with curves, how is this fitting?

And then you're also working with the designer of, okay, the design concept. It's one thing to have something in your mind. It's one thing to have a sketch on, you know, a 2D piece of paper, but then to bring it to life on an actual person who [00:12:00] is gonna be moving and, you know, gonna have to be feeling how the garment is fitting and feeling.

It's all those aspects of the technical side, you know, how long is the length, or how high is the neck, you know, those types of things. So it's very much the fit and construction of the garments.

jasmine: Yeah. And I think that people really sleep on how important this job is. Mm-hmm. And I think you have such an advantage of having a background in this because fit is so important.

Mm-hmm. More than you would even imagine. Yeah. Especially in the area of sales, because if something doesn't fit correctly mm-hmm. You're gonna get a bunch of returns. Right? Yes. So it doesn't matter if you're making the sales, if you've made these an awesome collection, if the fit is not there, it's not gonna work.

Mm-hmm. Especially when you get into the area of wholesale and you start selling to other retailers it's gonna be a problem if somebody orders 10,000 pieces of something and it fits horribly. Yes. You know? And so I [00:13:00] think that you have such an advantage having this background and being able to have this as a key component of the things that you make.

Catherine: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I also, another thing that's really important to me as a designer is not just Okay. It looks good and then it's like fitting. But how does it feel Because mm-hmm. I know for myself, I do not wanna wear something that is not comfortable, that is like hitting in a weird place or it's like constricting too much.

Like I wanna be comfortable. So I think also just kind of putting yourself in the shoes of the person who's gonna be wearing it. Yeah. Is this comfortable and am I gonna wanna put it on or am I gonna wanna take it off as soon as I put it on?

jasmine: Yeah. I can't wait to get one of your swimsuits cause I know it's gonna be cozy and fit.

Amazing. Okay. So when did you actually launch? When did you officially start the brand?

Catherine: Yeah, so I started working on it, you know, day one, April, 2020, so exactly [00:14:00] three years ago. Mm-hmm. And then the Kickstarter to fund the first production was August of 2021. So it took yeah, a good year and a half for all of the development.

Yeah, creating the brand, building up marketing the sample for samples. Photo shoot. Yeah.

jasmine: A year and a half. Okay. And for the people that don't know, what is Kickstarter?

Catherine: Yeah. Kickstarter is a crowdfunding platform that helps creators bring, well raise funding for the product they're making. And the way I used it was like a pre-order model.

So saying, okay, these are the swimsuits that I have to offer. You can back the project so you can give money in the arrangement that you're gonna get a swimsuit back. So that worked out really well for, for me because I got to know exactly what sizes and styles to create before I actually made [00:15:00] them.

And then also raise the money before actually making them because so far I've just been self-funded, so that was a really great avenue for me to go. That first collection. Yeah.

jasmine: I love that because you're getting customer feedback as well as mm-hmm. As, you know, getting funding for your business without equity being taken out.

Yep. It's an exchange for product. Yes. So I feel like that's a great way to fund if mm-hmm. Like you're a new brand or you just starting out and you don't really have means to funding. Yep. You can't really get approved for a loan yet cuz you don't really have proof of concept. So Yes. That's a great route to go.

Yeah, it

Catherine: was great for me that first collection and then as we talked about Jasmine, the second collection on Kickstarter, you have to reach your goal in order to get any of the funding. So the second collection that I launched on there did not reach its goal. So that's kind of where I am now is Okay, that wasn't successful.

So now what is the next step to access [00:16:00] funds to produce the next line?

jasmine: Yeah. And that's a real challenge. Yeah. These are real problems and I'm glad you're bringing this up because I feel like people don't really see in the background, we see these beautiful websites, beautiful Instagram, beautiful collections.

Mm-hmm. But people don't, don't really know the challenges that Yes. Happen within a brand. And a lot of times it's funding, like mm-hmm. It's a lot of money to start a collection. Yes. And of course you can start smaller and work your way up. Mm-hmm. But a lot of times there is a demand and, but we don't have the resources to meet mm-hmm.

That demand. And so, you know, coming off of this Kickstarter, now you're here questioning like, okay, what's the next step? Yes.

The Challenges of Funding a Fashion Startup

jasmine: So can I ask you, like, what have you looked into so far as far as funding goes and next steps to move forward?

Catherine: Yeah. I guess the biggest. Most, it seems like it'll be the most immediate option is [00:17:00] a loan from a bank.

But yeah, interest rates can be difficult and also the amount that you can get. I was just talking with my brother the other day. He's really helpful to bounce ideas off of. And yeah, we just talked about this idea of asking friends and family, because a lot of startups do say that's kind of the first before you go into you know, venture capital or, or having people invest the first round is kind of friends and family.

But we were just talking about how uncomfortable that idea is. I think in a couple ways. One, you know, not wanting to ask people for anything that, you know, just trying to do this myself and being independent in that way, but also just, you know, people often say, yeah, it's not good to, to like mix money in family because it can get awkward and uncomfortable.

And I think that's probably my biggest. Worry would be making it Yeah. Uncomfortable or making people uncomfortable by asking all that kind of stuff. So those are kind of the first two things. And then of course the next thing would be investors. And, and like [00:18:00] you're saying, giving up equity. I don't think I'm there yet.

You know, the idea of like the pitch decks and I also recently talked with an attorney and about the idea of, yeah, when you divide up your company with shares, then you need to bring an attorney in and you know, all then there's all lows, fees and all that. So I don't think I'm there yet, but yeah, I do think probably a loan, whether from family and friends or a bank is probably the next route.

What's your experience been with that?

jasmine: Yeah, I have a couple thoughts. When we get into the discussion of venture capitalists and investors, it's like, oh, so overwhelming and so like, yes, so big, right? Yeah. But I think there's a couple ways that. You know, you can fundraise without going to that route right away.

Mm-hmm. And small business loans with low interest being one of those ways. I also always look like to look out for grants and especially for like startup grants. There was one I just saw the other day actually specifically for [00:19:00] startups. Nice. That made less than 50,000. Cuz a lot of times with these grants, they want you to make a certain amount.

Right. It's like mm-hmm. What's the point? If I'm looking for money, I'm starting up, you know, this is like impossible. You want me to have like this amount right now. So, but there, there are some that Yeah. Don't require you to have, have that much yeah. Revenue yet and are specifically tailored to startups.

There's ones that are specifically tailored to women-owned brands mm-hmm. And all of that, like Amber Grant And so I always like to like look out for that. Yeah. So sometimes I take a day and I'll just scrape and see like, amazing what's out there right now. Yeah. Cuz it's free money. You don't have to pay it back.

Yeah. And I think the unique thing about purpose-driven businesses is that we have really strong story. Mm-hmm. And with story you can really evoke emotion in people and really get people wanting to be a part of this great thing. Mm-hmm. Right. And so I would really utilize that too, [00:20:00] even Yeah. If you are going the route of like fundraising from family and you sh present it to them in a way of like, not like, Hey I need your money cause I need to Right.

Run my swimwear line. Right. You know, like, that doesn't sound too interesting. Yes. But if you tell a story of like, you know, this is what the swimwear line is doing for the environment and for people and Yep. This is who we're serving and the area that these needs that have not been met. Mm-hmm. This is what we're gonna do.

Yeah. I think people are more prone to like, wanting to buy into it cuz they feel like they're a part of something. Yeah. So I remember when I started my brand, I like rented a peer space and I had like snacks like things that you could come eat and invited family and friends and I showed like a little video on mm-hmm.

A projector. And then after the video was done playing, I spoke about what I was doing and my heart behind the brand. And. [00:21:00] People started giving right away, you know what I mean? Amazing. And so I think there also has to be some type of incentive and like mm-hmm. You know, not just an ask. Cuz that makes it less uncomfortable.

Yes. And I think also when it's in a space where it's like you're sharing your heart and there's a group of people mm-hmm. There's this like little ripple effect that happens when one person sees that one person is like giving or going Yeah. Like, you know, investing in something or like being a part of something.

Then another person's like, well I want to too. Like, you feel like you're missing out on something, you know? Yeah.

Catherine: What did that practically look like?

Like

they handed you cash or

jasmine: No, no, no, no, no. So mine was also tied with my Indiegogo campaign. So crowd funding campaign. But I think that you can also do it yourself.

So make it like your own crowdfunding campaign. Yeah. Outside of this platform where they're gonna take percentages from him. Yes. And they don't wanna give you the money if you're not raising it. Yes. Yeah. Like maybe set up some kind of like PayPal account. So I had a computer at this event where people could go mm-hmm.

And like give their [00:22:00] amount. Yes. So you could even do like a, that's interesting. PayPal or something where they can just go, or pre-order or they can pledge right then and there so they don't go home and kind of like forget about it and they're like, oh, mm-hmm. What was that about? And give them to the opportunity to do it that way.

And then you take matters into your own hands. Right? Yeah. And you could also just like reach out to everyone that. Gave or wanted to give to your Kickstarter campaign and invite them out to something too. It can be small, it can be at your home, it can be at like an apartment clubhouse or whatever.

Yeah. But at least, you know, you're bringing them into the space and like maybe providing some food and like just sharing your heart. Because I think a lot of times it can be like scary asking for things, but more people probably wanna support you than you know. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Catherine: definitely.

And then do you have any idea what the turnaround time for grants is? Like once you apply mm-hmm. When are you, and you're granted it when Yeah. When are you receiving those funds?

jasmine: Yeah. So they're all different. All of them have different [00:23:00] terms and they'll tell you. Mm-hmm. Okay. Their contracts usually with most of them, they're pretty fast.

There have been like, I've gotten a grant where they broke it up into two parts. So they give you, okay. Because a lot of them are tied also to like they wanna give you mentorship. Nice. And they want you to be a part of this mentorship program. A lot of times they want you to finish out the program before they grant you the money. Got it.

And then sometimes it's just like, no, we'll just give you the money, but mm-hmm. You know, again, you have to have strong story and you have to know how to communicate that as well. Yeah. And I just, I had the episode before this, we were talking about brand identity and communicating that and crafting that story.

Cuz a lot of times you can have that in your heart, but you just don't know how to like, articulate it really well. Mm-hmm. Or like, make it sound really beautiful and so Yep. Like for myself, I hired someone, like, I was like, yeah, I wrote a rough copy. This is before AI, by the way. So just wrote a rough copy and had them [00:24:00] like, make it sound amazing.

And I'd use that for every application, for every grant, grant for Wow, that's awesome. About page and all of that, so Yeah. That's so great. It, it varies. Yeah. That's awesome. We were also talking about, you know, going into debt for your business and all of that earlier and wanted to kind of touch on that too. Cuz I think there is such a, like, there are some people who are just like naturally risk takers . I am not. Mm-hmm. Yes. And so that's something that I've had to learn on my journey and I'm curious mm-hmm. About like where you're at with that and that mindset.

Catherine: Yeah. I think we're coming from the same place.

I, I would say most of the advice I've gotten in the three years that I've been doing this has been don't go into debt. And I think those people are just coming from a place of, you know, there are other options and, and probably it's for a lot of people it's hard then to get out of debt. So Yeah. When you're putting yourself in that, yeah, it, I mean, it [00:25:00] is a risk both to get out of it, but also that you might fail and then not be able to pay it back.

Yeah. So I think that's kind of where they're coming from. But I would say the most advice I've gotten is not to do that. However, I do feel like that is kind of where I am now, is if I want to see this continue. That does sort of seem like the next option for me. And I, I like the idea of calculated, calculated risks.

You know, I wanna sit down and really look at all the numbers and, okay, how long do I have to pay this back? What is the likelihood of that? That kind of thing. So I would say yes, like a small business loan or even a personal loan so I haven't actually acted on any of these with these, they're just kind of things I'm thinking about for the next step to fund my next collection. Yeah.

jasmine: So I'll give you my thoughts on that too. Yes. So yeah, I come from this mindset of like, debt is evil.

Yes. Personally, I, you know, try to be debt free as much as possible. Mm-hmm. Yep. But I had a little bit of a mind [00:26:00] shift because I think being debt-free personal with your personal finances Yep. Is great. Like, yeah. It, it's a great thing to aspire to and I try to do that myself.

Mm-hmm. However, with a business, like you're saying, like sometimes you're gonna need extra money, and I think that, Like you said, calculated risk, right? Like mm-hmm. I think if you have proof of concept and you really believe in your product and you know, it can go far mm-hmm. You shouldn't just like go and go into a bunch of debt for something that you don't know is gonna work.

Like, you need to prove that people actually want this, that there's a need for it, that there's a space for it in the market mm-hmm. Before you step out on that. So yeah, I, I'll share a little story. I had a little experience with this, so yeah.

The Journey of Bootstrapping a Business

jasmine: I was always like, I'm just gonna bootstrap this thing and mm-hmm.

Grow it slow and, you know, we'll see that, where that takes me. So I came up at this point in my business, right.

Securing a Major Wholesale Order

jasmine: And I got a wholesale order that was [00:27:00] like six figures, right. Wow. And it was like a thousand pieces, I think. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I'm taking this right? Like Yeah. A lot of people will try, like if they can't fulfill the orders, maybe they'll try to talk them down.

Like let's bring the quantities down. Yep. Or find some way around it. But I'm like, I'm not giving this up. Like I've worked so hard for this, I'm Yes. I'm taking this deal. Right.

The Struggle of Financing a Big Order

jasmine: No idea how I'm gonna finance it, but we'll figure it out. Wow. So did the same thing. Had a couple of zero interest credit cards, but mind you, I'm scrapping to figure how I'm gonna do this out cuz this needs to ship out within the next six months.

Right. Wow. And so I'm just like, what the heck am I gonna do? So I had a couple of credit cards. The thing though, in the fashion industry, as you may know, a lot of these manufacturers don't take credit cards. Yes. So you need a lot of cash on hand too. Yep.

The Challenges of Applying for Loans

jasmine: So I started applying for loans.

All kind of things. And I had great credit personally. The business credit, like I didn't [00:28:00] really have a credit card up until then. Yeah. So there wasn't really, you know, any, anything there. But I had a PO and so I thought like, I'm gonna go to the bank, I'm gonna show them this po Yes, it's a hard PO for this many quantities and Yep.

You know what I've made up until this point and all this stuff, and it seemed like everything was gonna go great. First bank loan got denied. Yeah, they denied me and I'm like, why? No sufficient reason. And then I applied for, Another loan through the sba, right? Yeah. And I got approved for the loan, so excited.

I'm like, perfect. And so I'm like trying to hurry up and process this loan cuz I'm like, dude, I need this money. Mm-hmm. As soon as possible. Cause I gotta pay my manufacturer. And at this point I'm like, I moved to another manufacturer that the costs were higher because they were doing a full service production.

Yep. And I just needed that for the capacity I was [00:29:00] doing and so, yep. Doing the loan stuff, turns out first blow was that they don't give you the money right away and I needed the money right away. They said after it was approved it would take like two months or so before I get the money. Whoa. Yep.

Okay. That's very nice. Very good to know. Yeah. And then I don't know if it works like that for all of them, but this specific loan was like this and then, As they're doing the, the closing process of this loan, cuz there's so many steps. Yeah. I did not know any of this and I had to figure it all out when I had to pay for all of this production, right?

Mm-hmm. So they're getting to the closing process and they're like oh, we don't have records. We we're trying to pull records of your taxes or something like that, and we can't find that. I'm like, what I filed, I don't understand. Right. And it turns out like something happened where it didn't go through and they wouldn't be able to give me the loan until those [00:30:00] documents populated.

What to the irs. Yeah. And I went, I ran to the IRS office Yeah. And tried to resolve it and got it resolved. But she's like, oh, you know, the IRS is so backed up, it probably won't even get there until next year. Oh my gosh. And so it was just roadblock after roadblock after roadblock.

Overcoming Roadblocks and Securing Funds

jasmine: And I ended up, I ended up getting a loan from family.

Yeah. So I did take that route for that. But again, when you have a hard po it's a little bit easier because you're like, yeah, hey, I'm getting all this money. I'll pay you back. Yep. And something, there was a check that was supposed to come through from another retailer, and it was late, but it came in right in time.

Oh my gosh. And it, I was just flying by the seat of my pants. I was so stressed out. Wow. But all that to say is like, you don't want to wait until the moment when you get that huge order Yeah.

The Importance of Being Financially Prepared

jasmine: To [00:31:00] go get the money. You wanna make sure that you have that stuff on hand. You're ready, you're ready. And when it's time mm-hmm.

To, you know, finance something like this. You have that, you have that reading available. Mm-hmm. You don't have to be like me. Like, what if I didn't have family willing to, you know, make that investment or willing to lend me the money, you know?

And so it all worked out in the end, but I always remember that story because I'm like, I do not wanna end up in that predicament again. Yes, yes. But I also, again, calculated risk. I wouldn't want to take out a bunch of money that I don't need right now. Right. Yes. Yeah. And so that taught me so much and really changed my mindset about like, Finances within business and that Yep.

Yeah. Sometimes it's okay to borrow as long again as you have proof of concept and you really believe in what you're doing and you're gonna persevere until this thing is successful.

Catherine: Yep.

Negotiating Payment Terms in Wholesale

Catherine: Do you do you know the [00:32:00] payment terms on the, like that big PO and any other pos? Like do they pay you Yeah.

Anything upfront or how does that work?

jasmine: Yeah, so when you're dealing with wholesale, you can kind of negotiate your terms usually with larger retailers. So we're talking to apartment stores and really big retailers, they probably are not gonna nudge. Yeah. Especially with newer brands. Mm-hmm. It's like a legacy brand that's been around for a while and they've been caring for their while and they have proof of sales.

Yep. Like they may, but usually doesn't work. But for, you know, just regular wholesale you can always negotiate that, so. Mm-hmm. Usually what they will say is like, either we'll give you a hundred percent of the payment after everything ships. Mm-hmm. And they'll try to say like, net 30, so we'll pay you 30 days after net 60 or whatever.

Some people even do net 90, which is insane to me. Crazy. I would say no to that. Yeah. But as a brand, I think that you like have to really fight and try your hardest to [00:33:00] get a deposit and so mm-hmm. Usually with my retailers that I'm able to, I will say we need a 30% deposit, 70% of shipment. Nice. Yep. Because that will also give you the leverage to use that money to produce your collection.

And then Absolutely. You may not even need to borrow, you know, so. Yep, exactly. But again, when you're working with larger retailers, they know that they have the power and they know that they don't need to do that and you'll still work with them. So they're like, mm-hmm. Nope. Yep. We know you're gonna still accept this po.

So, you know.

The Risks and Rewards of Wholesale

jasmine: Yeah. But there are ways that you can just check and make sure that they, how their payment is. Mm-hmm. For example, even just talking to other designers who have worked with these stores before, they will tell you, like, I've had designers tell me like, they don't pay, like they don't build time.

It took me months or you know, gosh, not real months to get my payment, which is so unfair, but a nightmare especially Yeah. Yeah. To emerging designers. Cuz we need that money and you produce all this stuff, you know what I mean? Right. And it's [00:34:00] just very unfortunate. So I would always do my due diligence and not be just so impressed with Yes.

The name of a retail store. Like yes, I got this huge retailer and it looks great. Mm-hmm. You know? Yep. But there's a lot of like catch 20 twos with these things. Mm-hmm. Where you actually need to weigh out the cost. Like is it worth it? Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, sometimes it's like, well, it's free PR cuz I'm in the store and mm-hmm.

It looks good for my brand. Yep. But is it gonna like, you know, make you bankrupt. Right, exactly. So you have to do your due diligence. Yeah. Yeah. Have you thought about if you want to stay direct to consumer or if you are looking to get into the wholesale space?

Catherine: Yeah, I, to be honest, up until now I haven't been interested in wholesale because I think you do almost lose that ability to share your story.

However, it does feel like at the crossroads am It's not going to be sustain a sustainable [00:35:00] business model to just stay direct to Well, okay, let me go back. I don't think it's, in order to get costs down, I think I need to increase quantities and I think going the wholesale route will help increase quantities.

So I do think that is something I should pursue. But I mean, that's just a whole other beast in itself. I mean, you're just, even the couple things you've mentioned so far of okay, you get this PO and then you have to either, yeah, you have to produce that. And then just this idea of having multiple production runs.

I'm, I haven't done that yet. I've only, you know, just done one giant production run, which is so nice cuz it's just all at once. But the idea of, yeah, getting different pos and then having different production runs and sales and that is just a whole other beast that I haven't thought of. But it does feel like in order to get costs down increasing quantities, that would be helpful.

jasmine: Yeah. Yeah. I find that a lot of purpose driven [00:36:00] brands want to stay direct to consumer because of the reasons that you just explained. To keep the brand integrity to tell that story. Yes. Even to keep cost down, because when you're working with wholesale, you have to, you know, create that margin so you're still making a profit and that the retailers are able to mark up as well, right?

Mm-hmm. But I've also seen it done where, you know, people start off with wholesale to get the name out there, to get orders going. Mm-hmm. And then they draw it back in and then go direct to consumer cuz they have interesting following this base.

And then people, some people just stay direct to consumer, but that also comes with like, okay, you really have to advertise, you really have to grow your following. You have to get people. You know, get brand loyalty, get presence and brand loyalty and all of that. So yeah, I think there's, there's work on both ends.

Mm-hmm. I think the beauty with direct to consumer is like you are in control. Mm-hmm. Wholesale is just, it can be unpredictable. One season they could buy the next season, [00:37:00] they may not buy and they may not sell through. Like, there's just all these things to consider. Mm-hmm. Direct consumer will just stay here for right now.

Catherine: Yes, exactly. Not get ahead of ourselves.

jasmine: Exactly. But yeah. Something to think about. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. So has there been any other challenges that you've kind of come across in the startup phase? Because you're still fairly new and the challenges really they never end, so, right.

But I'm just curious for where you're at right now, almost three years. Mm-hmm. In like, what does that look like? Yeah,

Catherine: I think. The biggest ones definitely have been the funding and then knowing which or how many of each unit to produce that kind of thing.

The Challenges of Sourcing Materials

Catherine: But the other thing that comes to mind is sourcing materials, fabric and materials.

So I first started with this fabric that's made in Long Beach, California, and it is like the greatest swimwear fabric I've ever felt and seen. Mm-hmm. It's just like [00:38:00] so nice. And it is the first fabric that I started using is made of partially post-consumer waste. Mm-hmm. So that was really great. People were excited about that.

The idea that it's made from you know, recycling materials, but it doesn't feel like it feels so amazing. Well, where the, this mill in Long Beach, California gets the yarn made out of recycled materials. It was taking so long to get it in. I think it took like, Four to six months just for that yarn to come in.

And then when I just touched base with them recently, they're saying they're having quality control issues with that as well, which is pushing the date out even longer. So I like that. I found that fabric because it was had some recycled material, but also felt amazing. I mean, it yeah, like I said, some of the highest quality fabric I've found.

But I feel like other fab swimwear fabrics that are made from recycled [00:39:00] materials, they feel like it, they feel like this Yep. Came from plastic bottles. Yeah. I feel like I'm into a fabric plastic. Yeah, exactly. And I'm just not about that. I,

(SOUNDBITE ) if I'm gonna put in all this time and effort for a product, I wanna be so proud of it.

I wanna wear it myself. I wanna be excited to share it with others. So it like pains me the idea of having to use a fabric that I don't love. So I actually did decide when I was marketing my second collection to go to just a fully new fabric not made from any recycled materials to maintain that feeling of, you know, really high quality and kind of buttery soft.

And I got a little bit of feedback of, yeah, we don't want you to do that for my customers. It was a really difficult decision I had to make. And what's been interesting is when people are seeing the samples. So just like what you said, your party that you had for the Indiegogo with friends and family to back it.[00:40:00]

I've had a couple of those as well, and I've had the samples there out of the fabric that I don't think feels great, but people have said unsolicited, wow, we love this

jasmine: fabric. Oh my goodness.

Catherine: So that's okay. That might be another issue that I run into is I am a perfectionist. I want it to be perfect. Like I said, if I'm putting in all this.

Time and effort into it. I want it to be something I'm proud of and love, to be honest, a lot of people don't have the same standards I do, or like they just don't mind as much. So that's been an interesting conundrum of where is the line and how do you balance this like high standard that I have and I wanna put out there, but you kind of have to compromise on something sometimes.

And then your customers like, what do they want and what mm-hmm. Are their standards and what are they looking for? So that was kind of a two-part answer of, it's been hard to find materials that I can feel proud of, how they're [00:41:00] made, where they're made, but also the quality. And then also with those compromises, what decisions do I make and what do my customers want?

jasmine: Yeah. I love your thoughtfulness because we can trust that you're put out an amazing product. Yes. As you, you think through all of these details, which is so important. And I think, you know, the main thing is like keeping that integrity of the brand. Mm-hmm. And mm-hmm. Even if they don't know the difference like you do and you know, this is better, like, you know, first and foremost being a sustainable brand that you know.

Mm-hmm. Wanting the product to be sustainable and not giving that component up even if mm-hmm. The customer is like something else. Mm-hmm. That's what you stand for and they trust you for that. Mm-hmm. Whether they know it or not, like you're the informant, right. Like you're showing them like, no, this is better.

You know? Yeah. I'm helping you. Yeah. But yeah, I think [00:42:00] sourcing can be a challenge for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. Have you done trade shows, like gone to sourcing trade shows at all? I haven't

Catherine: recently. So most of the materials I found are well, especially because when I started during C O V I D it all had to be done via mail and then what we were talking about, you know, you find one supplier and then they can refer you.

That's been really helpful in la, the LA area. Mm-hmm. You know, I'll, I'll find one supplier for something and then I'll say, Hey, I'm looking for this. Do you have this? No, I don't. But you know, so-and-so down the road.

jasmine: Mm-hmm. Has that? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it takes a while though, s swer and finding the perfect materials.

Mm-hmm. And you know, you get to a point too when you can just develop your own and Right. Things that you wanna do

yeah. So like what do you see for the future of CNN Company? Yeah,

The Future of Siena Company

Catherine: I would love to feel good about swimwear first. You have to just kind of get my feet under me a little bit better with that. But then the goal would absolutely be to get to branch out to other [00:43:00] categories. Again, kind of that idea of providing women more options for clothing they can feel confident in.

Across all categories. I love designing dresses and skirts. I feel like for casual wear, for the most part, I feel like there's a good amount of options out there for what I might be looking for myself. But it seems like a, if you want a little bit more elevated than just kind of your everyday casual, I feel like there's a little gap there for what I'm looking for, for women to be able to feel confident in it, but also how it's confident in how it's made.

Mm-hmm. So that would be my goal is to be able to expand to other categories.

jasmine: Yeah. Yeah. We'll definitely be able to do it, but I think it's good to like, you know, niche down, start small Yes. Per fact, and like Exactly. Grow from there.

Catherine: Yeah. How about you? What I, do you have any. Immediate or long-term goals.

Retirement. Amen.

jasmine: Do podcasting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I [00:44:00] think one thing that I've been really passionate about and why I started this podcast is like education and, mm-hmm. After I left my job in the industry, I had actually started consulting before I started my business. Nice. And something I still do today.

So that is kind of what this whole podcast is surrounding, is like just amazing educating and like, having these really intentional and like just vulnerable conversations. Mm-hmm. About like, this is what it looks like actually to run a business and these are the challenges that come up. And so, yeah.

I'm really passionate about that and That's amazing. Yeah.

The Vision and Purpose Behind the Brand

jasmine: I feel like with my brand sometimes I feel like this is a ministry for me. Mm-hmm. Especially cuz I just feel like, you know, I'm a person of faith and I know you are too and mm-hmm. Just how much God has really used what I'm doing mm-hmm. To speak to people. The encounters I've had with people, the emails I get the Yes.

The opportunities I've been able to get to be unapologetic about my faith. Wow. On these platforms that there's [00:45:00] usually no space for us, you know? Yes. And so I feel like it's almost like. It's a ministry, it's an act of rebellion. It's so many things, you know? Yes. And sometimes the clothes are the last thing I think about.

I'm like, yes. How can I draw women closer to who God's created them to be? Yes. Oh, this is just a vessel. You know? And I think that's what a lot of what we're doing is like mm-hmm. We're sitting here thinking like, I wanna start a fashion line. But it's like, yeah. How could you be used? How can you serve others well?

Yes. Yes. And in the midst of that, like, God will provide and you will be sustained. If this is what you're called to do, like you will be fine. But I think just focusing in on the purpose and the mission. Mm-hmm. Not only like, It, we'll give you some direction, but also I think it just gives you a sense of purpose and fulfillment.

Mm-hmm. Like I feel so much joy getting to do what I do every single day. Mm-hmm. No matter, like if it's a difficult day or challenging or finances [00:46:00] are crazy or whatever, it's just like, what a privilege. Mm-hmm. That I get to do this that I like. Not only this, but like that this brand has afforded me the opportunity of like so many other things that I would never have been able to do if I didn't like take the leap of faith and like start it, you know?

Yep. Exactly.

Catherine: So yeah. So good. Thanks for sharing all that.

jasmine: I feel like I'm in talking so much amazing and I'm supposed to be interviewing

Catherine: you. No, I love it. That's what we said. We want it to be a conversation. Yes. We're just meeting, so getting to hear. Yeah. All that you're doing. Yes. You guys, we just incredible today.

Yay,

jasmine: by the way.

Catherine: Love it.

jasmine: Yes. So. I feel like I went off on such a tangent. No, that's right. It was good and necessary. Yeah. Okay. Let me reel it back in.

Next Steps and How to Support Siena Company

jasmine: So after this discussion, after this call on us talking about all these things, what do you think your next steps are gonna be?

Like? What are you gonna do moving forward [00:47:00] with Siena Company? Yeah. What does that look like?

Catherine: Yeah. I think this last week after the last Kickstarter campaign was not fully funded. I think I am just getting a rejuvenation of, well, just everything you just said of it is a gift and a joy to get to do this, even if it's not where I want it to be yet.

And there is a lot of work that needs to be put in. And okay. So yeah, one thing I said earlier was this idea of when you come against a road block, is it a door close or do you need to just push a little harder? And so I do feel like. I don't think Siena company is over yet. So I think, yeah, that next step would be pursue outside funding to fund this next collection to help it continue and we'll see if any more doors close in the future.

Yeah.

jasmine: No, I honestly don't think it's over yet too. And God didn't tell me that. I don't know everything. I'm just feeling like it's not, and yeah. [00:48:00] Yeah. If I can be any help to you, I hope that, you know, I can be incredible. Thank you so much. Yeah, I, I think. I am just like so tired of like this industry being so competitive and so weird.

Mm-hmm. And I think it's nice when we can collaborate as yes, entrepreneurs and designers and mm-hmm. At any level there's always things that we can share with each other to Yes. Advance what we're doing, especially when it's just rooted in so much purpose. We need more brands out there like that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I really believe that there is no point of starting a clothing line in this day and age if there is no purpose tied to to it. Yes, totally. And so I love seeing more brands emerge that just have this great concept and is doing something amazing cuz we need more of that. Yay. So if people wanna connect with you, where can they find you?

Catherine: Yeah, the best way is to sign up on our email list, so you can do that by going to our website, sienna [00:49:00] co.com, s i e N a co.com, and then sign up for the email list. That's where you get all the first information, pre-orders, sales, all the good stuff, and your

jasmine: social media. Where can we find you?

Catherine: Yes, Instagram, sienna underscore co, s i e n a, underscore

jasmine: c o.

Perfect. And lastly, if anybody wants to support what you're doing, like how can we do that? Yeah,

Catherine: absolutely. So we do have some of our PR collection up on our website, the classics collection, all black, my favorite, so there's still swimsuits there available. And then we're just gathering information for a second collection, the retro collection, kind of a fun sixties, seventies, retros inspired.

Collection. So interested in any swim sys to go to our website for that. And then just sharing too with anyone you think would be interested is always appreciated.

jasmine: Thank you so much, Catherine. It's been so lovely talking with you and I feel like so [00:50:00] inspiring and so excited for what's to come with Siena Company. I know this is not the last we're gonna hear from you. And yes, I can't

Catherine: wait. Yay. Thanks so much Jasmine. This has been awesome.

Keep up the good work. .

jasmine: See ya. Hey friends,

Before we end today's episode, I want to give you a free resource that's going to help you create that winning product that we spoke about today. And that resource is our fit checklist. And this is going to help guide you as you do your fit session so that you can ensure that your product has the best fit you can get this free guide at makegoodfashion.

com slash fit check or check the show notes for the link i promise you this is going to come in handy so make sure to get your copy today