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Jasmine: [00:00:00] Hey friends and today's episode, I get to interview Shoba Phillips a champion for sustainability and inclusivity in the fashion industry. Sherpa has successfully started two businesses, one being a sustainable line of nude intimates called proclaim. And other, she co-founded called which is a craft fair that celebrates diversity and inclusivity. By bringing visibility to BiPAP creators

shoba is a total powerhouse and has so much, was them an inspiration to share with us on how she successfully built? These two businesses. So let's get into my interview with Shoba Philips.

Hey, Shoba, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I'm so excited to have you.

Thanks for having

Shobha: me. I'm excited

Jasmine: to chat today. Yes. Okay, so Shoba, I don't know if you remember, but I remember when we met, it was, we collaborated with another brand, we had a pop up in Brentwood and that was fun, very [00:01:00] interesting experience but I remember when we did that, I think you were just getting started.

at that point. Exactly. Yeah. And it's so incredible to see how much you've grown so far and everything that you've been able to do with Proclaim. And so I just want to go back and if you can take me back to how you started and how the idea for the brand came about.

Shobha: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like we were baby brands when we first met so long ago.

But so I started Proclaim, it launched in 2017, but the whole idea was that. I couldn't find a nude bra that matched my skin tone as, you know, a woman with brown skin and it must have been like 2015 when I was starting to think about this and I was, it just baffled me that it was like the year 2015 and this was still an issue.

So I was working full time at that point and nights and weekends, I was kind of researching. What would a solution for this look like? And I think I realized [00:02:00] pretty quickly or like immediately that if I was going to solve this problem of not having inclusive nudes for women of color. There was kind of a bigger issue of just the fashion industry in general, exploiting people of color for cheap labor you know, ruining their environments, whether it's through dumping chemicals or you know, the, the way that they treat the land that a lot of these These garments are currently produced.

So I think I knew initially if I'm going to do this, I want to do this in a way that's sustainable and ethical and uplifts communities of color rather than exploit them, which is, I feel like the way that the current fashion industry is set up. So it almost made it like. easier because I had a clear path and vision to what I wanted to accomplish.

So within about two years I had found a manufacturer. So at the time I was living in San Francisco, so we did all of our manufacturing for that first launch in San Francisco using [00:03:00] sustainable fabrics. I launched with one bra, it came in three nude colors. And immediately. So I'd started my Instagram account about six months before that and turned on the website and immediately saw sales.

And then I knew like, Oh, like people, people get this. People are responding. And I knew it was like onto something and creating something that obviously women needed. Hey friends, I'm going to briefly cut into this interview here. Because as I was editing this podcast episode of this interview with Shoba, I realized that I wanted to expand more on something that she said. If you notice, she said that as soon as she launched her site, that she instantly started seeing sales. And I didn't really expand on this in the interview.

And so I thought that I would not be a good interviewer if I didn't go back for more contacts and ask her how this happened, because a lot of times a new branch struggle to see sales immediately. So I got in touch with Shoba and I asked her if she could provide more context to this, and here's what she [00:04:00] said. When I started, I was lucky in that it was a lot easier to grow organically through Instagram. I started an Instagram account about six months before launching proclaim. Posting pics on my feet about my focus on inclusive, new bras and sustainable manufacturing with some behind the scenes content as well. I was able to find and engage with most of our early customers through that account, which linked to a landing page on my website. Where it was also collecting emails to notify folks. When we went live. I think today it may not be via Instagram, but finding your community in real life or other platforms like Tik TOK is still important to developing that base and growing an email list before launching. I also launched with just one product, a bra and three new colors. And I think focusing on community building rather than extensive product lines is another key. It gives you the flexibility to [00:05:00] incorporate your customer's feedback into your sort mint as you grow. You can create products more tailored to the customer.

You are building a relationship with. Okay. Now back to our episode.

Shobha: So. I guess fast forward to now. So that was six years ago almost. And now we've expanded from, you know, just one bra to bras, underwear, loungewear, like tanks slip dresses.

And then we've also done swim collections as well.

Jasmine: Wow. And did you have a traditional fashion industry background?

Shobha: Not necessarily. So in school, I'd studied business, I studied marketing, and then I started my career path, just a kind of traditional corporate. route. So my first job was at Target Corp.

And then I worked for Del Monte Foods, which is a CPG company. And really, I think I'm grateful that I kind of went that route too. I think having that business background has been super helpful in starting my own company and knowing kind [00:06:00] of that business side. And then I've learned the design aspects as I've gone and working with experts in their field to bring these products to life.

Jasmine: Yeah. So I'm curious, since your background wasn't traditionally in the fashion industry, what were some hurdles that you faced trying to like navigate how to get these products produced?

Shobha: weLl, let's see. There were a lot of hurdles. I think I learned a lot from mistakes that I made. I'd say when you're starting.

So the one big issue I, I faced, I'd say two things. First of all, people not taking you seriously. And I remember I went to meet with, I want to say it was a fabric mill and they were like, Oh, we get a, we get a ton of influencers that want to start clothing lines. So I'm like, first of all, I'm not an influencer, but it's fine.

If you are like you're putting down this whole industry of hardworking people, right. And it was just that kind of dismissive attitude of like, Oh, this young woman doesn't know what she's doing. So that, and then also just being a small business. [00:07:00] Every, you know, there's a lot of components when it comes to a raw, there's hardware, there's the fabric, you know, there's the threads, there's the elastics and you have to meet a minimum with each of these suppliers in order to make a, to purchase these, these components.

So I think figuring out that maze of, like, meeting the minimum, creating only using sustainable materials. Was kind of a challenge, I think, for that first year. And even now, it's still something we face as a small business trying to figure out that navigate that that balance of meeting minimums and working with brands that meet your sustainable and ethical practices that you're trying to achieve.

Jasmine: Yeah. And how were you able to find that first factory? Like, what type of research did you do, or how did you navigate that process?

Shobha: Yeah, so for my first collection I wanted to be hands on so I knew I wanted to make everything in San Francisco where I was living at the time. So I worked with the local I guess you'd call it like [00:08:00] like what are they?

They're like a local manufacturing kind of contingent called SF made. I actually don't even know if they're around anymore, but SF made was like their local industry community. And I reached out to them to see if there was anyone locally that. That does what I'm looking for, the type of manufacturing I'm looking for, and they recommended somebody that I ended up working with.

Jasmine: Oh, that's amazing. It sounds like you had a lot of it, a lot more of an easier time with that than a lot of people, because I know it can be so hard to find, you know, a lot of people are like gatekeepers in this industry and like no one wants to share that information. So it's so nice that you were able to find that.

seamlessly. I don't know if it was easy, but

Shobha: I agree. I mean, I will say I have encountered that. I think I would, I reached out to just like local designers and brands that I felt like weren't as open about sharing who they're working with. Yeah, I think I was lucky to have that resource that pointed me in the right direction.

Jasmine: Yeah, that's amazing. [00:09:00]

Shobha: Yeah.

Jasmine: And so when we talk about like the sustainable sustainability aspect of your business, and I know I love how it's so good. Yeah. you not only you know, when we're talking about materials, but in a whole. So what are some ways that you incorporate that into your business model?

Shobha: Yeah, I guess so for me, with every decision I make, I'm always trying to think of how can I do this more sustainably. So the fabrics are one thing and I try to use, I think for me, I don't think there's. One solution when it comes to fabrications and fibers that are used that we use. So we've worked with a variety of sustainable fabrics, including organic cotton, hemp cupro.

What else have we used? You guys have Modal

Jasmine: too, right? Yeah, exactly.

Shobha: Tencel has been a huge one. So yeah, so like, being open to different types of sustainable fabrics has been something that I've focused on. I don't think there's one solution when it comes to sustainability. And then, [00:10:00] you know, trying to find local suppliers.

So we've worked with local fabric mills in L. A. That has kind of helped reduce our carbon footprint. You know, cutting and sewing is local as well. Again, reduces our carbon footprint. Like, we kind of have this hyper local supply chain where the fabric mill, the cutting and sewing and the fulfillment is all happening within this like 30 mile radius, which I think helps to meet.

Kind of that sustainability aspect that we're going for and then just every component like I'm I try not to use plastic in our hang tags when we were doing that. So you know, 100 percent recycled paper using a lot of people attach labels with like a plastic component, but we use hemp twine to attach the labels.

We use compostable packaging. So just I think every time we're trying to acquire or make something we, think about what the most sustainable options are.

Jasmine: Yeah, that's awesome. And I think, like, as the years go on, I feel like I see more options being developed and coming up to be able, for us to [00:11:00] use. So that's really encouraging, too, because, you know, I feel like it was very limited when we talk about sustainability and, like, materials and fabrics that we can use, but things are being developed all the time.

But even with that, like, I guess in the beginning, What were some challenges with that? Like, just trying to exclusively be a sustainable line and getting the resources that you needed.

Shobha: Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it was the minimums. I think meeting minimums has always been challenging, especially when I know I want to do these inclusive nude colors.

So I have a set amount of custom colors that I want to create as well. So each component has to match those colors as well. So figuring out, like, what has to be dyed, what I can find, like. In a stock color within that color range. Has been was always challenging. I think I think as I grow and I'm able to meet higher minimums.

I think that's been helpful. And I think like you mentioned, like, there is a lot of innovation happening in this industry. And I think when you're really small brain, like when I started, I found it challenging to [00:12:00] find people that were doing that were leading the industry and innovation and creating new materials and new fibers.

It's hard to get their attention or to even work with them. So I think that's something I focus on is developing those partnerships with. With groups and organizations that are making innovations and strides in this area to partner and hopefully develop products with them.

Jasmine: Yeah, I want to touch a little bit more on that.

How important has like relationship building and networking been for you?

Shobha: I'd say it's 100 percent made my business. I think it's so important, which I think is actually like when I moved to LA. So within that first, almost less than a year, I moved to Los Angeles and I moved all my manufacturing locally to Los Angeles as well.

And I feel like. Since moving here. I have found like a community like yourself of other local sustainably minded designers and that has made all the difference. I found everyone is super welcoming and helpful when it comes to sharing [00:13:00] resources. You know, whether it's. Somebody for cutting, sewing, a fabric mill, where to find some hard to source component.

You know, there's somebody on a text thread or a group chat that can point, either nodes or can point you to somebody that does know the answer. So that has been, I think, life changing and absolutely been something that has changed the trajectory of this business. Yeah, I'd say it's, it's everything.

The community and networking is everything when it comes to being a small business owner.

Jasmine: Yeah, I just spoke about this recently, this idea of collaboration over competition, and I think a lot of times, as designers especially, can find themselves in, like, this island on their own, trying to, like, build these businesses, and I think, you know, sometimes it can be competitive and all of that, and yeah, I just find, you know, we, we've been a part of, like, a group thread that's been super helpful, and and, You know people are happy to share resources and happy to help each other out and happy to [00:14:00] you know Like and comment on people's posts and just help in any way possible.

And so yeah, I Hope that this is encouraging for someone to like, you know Get out of your own little space your own echo chamber and you know make friendships network Make partnerships because I think it's so important

Shobha: I agree. And I think it can be scary. Like, I've made a lot of friends just from like cold DMing on Instagram and some of those, like, you know, brand owners, designers, founders are some of my best friends now.

Wow. I think, I think it's, you know, getting over, you just have to put yourself out there. Exactly. Like, I think it's kind of getting you over your own fears. Exactly. To make those connections.

Jasmine: Well, I think this is a great segue into talking about how you and some of those designers became friends and were able to build something aside from your, your business with Proclaim.

You also started a pop up market, [00:15:00] a craft fair, if you would, with some other designers that you have become friends with in this industry. So can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Shobha: Yeah, so we started a craft fair called Intodo, and it started really, so there's four designers, including myself, that are founders of Intodo, and it really was all of us seeing a need for more visibility for BIPOC designers.

We'd all participated in marketplaces and different pop up events where we felt like there wasn't good representation, diverse founders. And so we wanted to bring that, that perspective to, to a pop up. So I, I think it was, it was honestly like conversations we were all having on the side with each other.

And then. It just kind of came together one day where I think we were on it was during COVID. It was like a group chat. We were talking, I think, first somebody kind of joked like, oh, we should do something [00:16:00] about this. And I'm kind of like, Oh, wait, we should do something like let's, let's do it. Let's make a pop up.

So it was so since it was during COVID, our first pop up was a virtual pop up. So yeah. It was bringing together, together BIPOC founded brands in an online marketplace for about a week in December. And then that next year, things are a little bit more open. So we had our first in real life event in Silver Lake and it's grown from there.

Now we're in a bigger location in Boyle Heights. We have about 120 vendors that participate each year. We have thousands of people come through to shaft and support these vendors. And it's become something that we all look forward to. We plan for it all year. It's a labor of love that we all kind of put into knowing that this is like something we all believe in and some like kind of the, the change that we want to see in this industry.

Jasmine: Yeah, I love that so much because not only are you creating opportunities for your own brand, you're creating opportunities for other brands that are coming up like you and I think that's [00:17:00] so amazing. And we both know we've done tons of these craft fairs and pop up markets and I'm, like you said, you see this need.

And you, you solve the need by doing one for yourself. So, I love that so much.

Shobha: Yeah, we just decided to kind of do it. It's a lot of work, I will say that. I bet, it's a whole production. Yeah, but I think it's something that we're all just very proud of and it's, it's the best vibe. I'd say like, I think between the vendors all getting together and networking and creating like lifelong friendships, customers coming and feeling like seen and comfortable and represented.

And like they're supporting their community and I think that it's like just a there's nothing like it. I feel like yeah So for brands who are looking to to showcase at a craft fair like in total What are some things that you guys are looking for in the brands that you guys? on board and allow to Showcase.

Yeah, I guess you know a [00:18:00] unique design perspective is one and we're always I think the hardest part is always trying to curate a variety of Types of brands. So across, you know, women's apparel, men's apparel unisex home goods jewelry, food, like every, all these CPG products, like we're trying to make sure we have a variety.

So when customers come, they can almost hit everyone on their shopping list, cause this is a holiday market. Find something, a little bit of something for everyone.

Jasmine: Yeah. And can you just touch on a little bit? Cause I feel like. You know, the whole idea of craft fairs and pop up markets, sometimes when you are a new designer, like, this whole concept is totally new to you.

And it can feel like a big investment at the time, and like, you know, is this gonna pay off? So, I'm wondering if you can touch on a little bit about the opportunity that comes with showcasing at one of these fairs.

Shobha: Yeah. So, so as a vendor, you pay for your [00:19:00] booth space. So we have a variety of, we do, and most crafters do have a variety of of like what type, what size imprint you want.

So for like a larger space, if you have larger product or want to bring a lot of product to the show, or you could share booths, which makes it more cost effective. And if you're testing an utter new product or a new brand, that's an easy way to kind of see if this, if this routes for you. And then it does, I will say it takes a lot of time when you participate as a vendor, because, you know, for me, for example, for apparel, I have to tag everything to make sure that as a direct to consumer brand, I'm not necessarily tagging, having price tags and everything, but to get ready for these shows you're tagging, you're putting price tags, you're putting the sizing on there.

So people can easily shop your brand and kind of thinking through when somebody comes to my space. What that looks like because, you know, as a DTC, we're usually like selling on our website and selling in real life is like a whole different thing. Thinking through like making it easy to shop aesthetic, like having flowers and different things like that.

And then, you know, enticing customers to come in, [00:20:00] like whether it's sales pricing or, you know, different deals like that. So it, it takes, I think a little bit of planning to, to participate and like make sure you have, you're optimizing your space and then. You know, it's, it's long days. So like our show is I think seven or eight hours.

So whether you're doing yourself or you have a friend or an employee helping you, like planning out your staffing for the event and then setting up and then tearing down is also kind of a separate component too.

Jasmine: Yeah, it's, it's a lot. But , I think I have ,

Shobha: but it's also really fun. So I think the thing I'm not touching on is, is what you get out of it.

Oh yeah. So with ours, I think one thing we try to di differentiate ourselves with, and one thing that's important to us, 'cause I think we all come from the, the founders all come from the brand side, is that community building aspect. So we've had the last two years we've had our sponsors who are.

You know, great brands that kind of align with their values hold these dinners leading up to the event where [00:21:00] local brands are able to come and like, have this nice dinner and get to know each other, get to meet each other because the days of the event can be very chaotic and it's a time for all of us to come together and meet and like, make those connections in a kind of relaxed setting.

So I think that's been really important to us and something we really want to expand upon as we grow is, is that community building aspect and creating the space for all of our vendors.

Jasmine: Yeah, and I think that's at the core of what you guys do too, you know, the community, and it gives the opportunity for that networking.

But aside from that too, like, I think that You know when we talk about craft fairs whether it be in todo or any other craft fair that aligns with your brand It's a great revenue stream as well, you know for your business To get offline and also I think just to get that customer feedback. I don't know about you But the first one that I did i'm like wow, this is so awesome Like I can actually see people trying on the clothes See how they're wearing get so much customer feedback so I can go back and you know Change some [00:22:00] things make some amendments and make the product work even better.

So I think that's an opportunity, too

Shobha: Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. I think as we have rare chances to be in front of customers as mostly direct to consumer brands that are online. So I think that is like the one opportunity, like the few opportunities you have to like interact with customers, get to know them, just even just getting to know what more about them.

So you're able to like create products better that meet their needs. But like you're saying, yeah, fit sizing, seeing what colors or patterns people are drawn to. And you could have a conversation, like, what would they like to see and that can help inform, like, what direction you're going to go as a business in general.

yOu really, and just observing, just seeing, like, what, how people are shopping, I think is super helpful like invaluable as a business to see that.

Jasmine: Yeah, totally. Okay, Shoba, so out of all of these amazing things that you're doing, like, you are like the culmination of Make Good Fashion, like, all the way around.

It's like your brand. So I'm curious, what out of all of these [00:23:00] amazing things that you're doing is something that you're most proud of?

Shobha: Oh, man. I think it's honestly just starting. I think starting a business is incredibly hard. Well, I'll say starting and then sticking with it. Right. Right. I think that first step of starting is like, there's a lot of self doubt.

I think that goes into it. I think, I think for me, it took me a while to realize that I was like afraid of failure is the right word, but kind of. Afraid of that unknown of what could happen if this didn't work out. And I almost didn't even let myself, my mind go there. Like I just knew somehow internally that this was going to work out.

So just like putting that, like that faith into this whole process and then sticking with it, I think it's, there's the thing I've learned about being an entrepreneur is there's so many ups and downs. It's a rollercoaster and I've gotten better about celebrating those like highs. I think I used to like, it would happen and I would just move on and moving on to the next problem solving thing I have to do, but like taking time, like when I launch a new product now, I'll like take that [00:24:00] day off or not that day, a few hours off and I'll like go out to a nice lunch and like, just really make sure that I'm celebrating like this accomplishment.

And then the lows, cause there are lows. And I think just knowing that they're coming and they're going to pass, I've gotten to that part. of being a business owner now. So just like not getting too low when it gets low and knowing that it's there. It's not the end of the world. I think I used to think like, Oh my gosh, this is it.

This business is over. Yeah, always a solution. There's always going to be another way to get through this. Yes, that's such a healthy approach, like definitely need to celebrate. It can be so easy to like You know, you experience a high and then you just let it pass and you're like, okay on to the next on to the next and I think it's being intentional about taking that time to just Sit and enjoy and to like bask and this accomplishment is so important.

Jasmine: 'cause then I feel like it, it helps you not to burn out as quick, you know? Yeah. So that's so good. I'm going to take a little page from your book 'cause I definitely don't do that [00:25:00] yet. Yeah. Just like a tiny little ritual, like when something

Shobha: good happens that you like, makes me acknowledge

Jasmine: it. Yeah. No, that's amazing.

And so I think that was already a piece of an encouragement, but I'm curious if you have any other. Pieces of encouragement that you would give aspiring fashion entrepreneurs. I know we need a lot, so.

Shobha: Let me think. I guess, I think for me, especially people that are trying to be in the sustainability space, I think it can be intimidating and like you're trying to do something in a perfect way when at the end of the day there's no perfect solution, I think, for anything that we're trying to do.

I think there's just There's, there's the journey of trying to always do better and I think with that mindset, you'll accomplish more rather than kind of getting into like, just before the start line and just trying to like get something that's, you know, perfectly sustainable or perfectly, perfectly ethical.

There's no such thing as perfection. [00:26:00] Taking the steps towards going on that path.

Jasmine: Yeah, that's so good. That takes a lot of pressure off of a lot of people.

Shobha: Yeah, because I think, even I put that pressure on myself. It took me a while to launch it because I was trying to perfect everything. At one point I realized, oh, I just need to put this idea out into the world.

It's not, it's never going to be perfect.

Jasmine: Yes, you just set a lot of people

Shobha: free.

Jasmine: Yeah, I hope so. Okay, Shoba, so where can we find you for both Proclaim and En Todo?

Shobha: Yeah. Okay. So Instagram is probably the best place to find us and follow the journey. So Proclaim is where? Proclaim. W E A R. Proclaim. And then Entoto is entoto.

us. That's I N T O D O. us.

Jasmine: And they can also apply to be vendors at the fair on the website, right?

Shobha: Yep. I should know this, but I don't know the open up applications, but it's in spring sometime. So if you Sign up for emails on the website or follow us on Instagram. We'll always make those announcements there.[00:27:00]

Jasmine: Amazing! Oh my gosh, Shoba, you've been so amazing. I feel like this was like a little master class. In a few 30 minutes, I'm like so inspired. So thank you so much for being on the podcast and just for blessing us with all your wisdom and sharing a little bit about your journey.

Shobha: Thank you so much for having me.

You had such great questions. This was such a good conversation and like, like we were saying earlier, like a good reminder of why we're doing this.

Jasmine: Yes, yes, we need it. All right, Shoba, have a good one.

Shobha: You too. Thank you.

If you were so inspired to create a sustainable brand after listening to Chavez interview today, I have an amazing resource for you. I've compiled the list of amazing sustainable fabrics and techniques, so that you can begin exploring textiles that you can use to incorporate sustainability into your brand. Oftentimes as designers, we can feel so limited or uninformed about which textiles are actually sustainable.

So this guide is going to help you out with that. All you have to do is head over to make good [00:28:00] fashion.com/ethical sourcing. Again, that's make good fashion.com/ethical sourcing or just check the show notes for the link.