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Jasmine: [00:00:00] Hi, Lottie. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I'm so excited to have you. Thanks so much for having me. Yes, and thank you for staying up because I know we have a crazy time difference. Yeah.

Lottie: This is, it's manageable, it's a manageable

Jasmine: time. Yes, we make it work. Okay, Lottie, so I want to get right into it because I want the audience to get to know you a little bit more.

So if you can just tell us about how you landed in design, how you found yourself here, and just give us a little bit more about

Lottie: your background. Yes, so I am like a freelance fashion design consultant and I work with independent brands and startup companies mostly. Before that I was working in the fashion industry for eight years that was working, you know, in the more traditional fashion industry that's, you know, definitely like the fast fashion side of things, which was really amazing.

I learned so much. While I was [00:01:00] doing that, but, you know, we could go into that later, but I've obviously, you know, had a lot of questions about the fashion industry. But yeah, the way I got into that was because I've always just been like an extremely creative person. I did like art and textiles at school, and I, you know, I wasn't really sure what to do with it.

So I went to university to do fashion design. Like university, I went to university, it was very Focused more on the commercial design rather than extremely conceptual design. And I, I kind of did that purposely because I'm very passionate about designing clothes for people who, you know, I know they're going to wear them and it's not something just for like a one off occasion.

So I've always been very, very passionate about designing for more everyday people. So yeah, that's, that's what I did when I graduated. from a university and I got my first job actually straight out of university and moved to London and It just yeah kind of went from [00:02:00] there. Really. My first job was working as a in a denim Supplier and then my second job I moved more into like wovens Which is like, you know, anything like tops, bottoms, skirts, dresses, anything that's made from like woven fabric, not stretched fabric.

And then my third job was a bit of everything. It's what you call like a multi product designer. And a lot of people say, you know, it's good to niche, and it's good to work on a particular product. But I, because I started on denim, I didn't really want to just by chance, my first ever job, be like, that's it, I'm niching forever, you know?

Because I really wanted to learn different disciplines. And I'm really glad I did because actually when about the time I finished working in the full time as a full time designer in London and started thinking about what I want to do next, it stood me in such good stead having that background because now when I work with clients, I can turn my hand to [00:03:00] so many different things and I've had like that really good design experience so I can approach it from a way That I feel really confident that I can deliver and, you know, and I don't feel worried about, you know, I would definitely tell a client if there was a particular, you know, if there was something I wasn't comfortable with, I tend not to do that underwear, you know, anything like overly technical underwear or things like that, because I don't have a lot of experience in that.

So yeah, like I have a quite a broad experience and it makes freelancing very, very interesting because I get so many different varied groups and

Jasmine: things. So you spoke about how you worked in fast fashion before and now you're so niched into purpose driven brands and that's kind of why connected with your work so much because that's something that is so important to us here.

But I'm curious how you took the leap from, you know, what from designing for fast fashion brands and then in your own freelancing business catering [00:04:00] to Purpose driven brands. So how did you get there?

Lottie: I like the story of how I came to this because I didn't come to it actually very, it wasn't like I'm going to leave my job and then I'm going to start my own business.

It didn't really go like that because by the time I left my full time job, you know, I, I left quite quickly in a way because things went really quite toxic in my last job. And it, I, you know, I was. I had an opportunity to step away and I just thought I have to do it for my, the sake of my sanity. Yeah. And at that point I actually had a blog that I used to do.

It was all about like slow fashion and like I, I tried to connect with people as much as possible by doing that because at work I was very aware that I, I wasn't feeling fulfilled. It was very quantity over quality, production style, and so I really needed [00:05:00] to do something for myself. And this was, maybe like, seven years ago, so it's still, you know, it was when the conversations were still quite new.

And so, through that, I decided to, I wanted to do a little bit of traveling. Actually, I've never done that before. So, I went to India with my partner and we saw all this amazing, like, artisanal products. We did a lot of filming there, uh, for someone who had a slow fashion brand. She wanted, like, my partner's videographer.

So, we were doing, like, filming there, saw all of that. Um, we went to like Bali for a little while and I, we were doing like beach queens, you know. I was really like just getting, throwing myself into like this space of how can I find more purpose for myself. And then the last place we went was Cambodia and it was there that I, I really loved it there and it felt like you could do a lot in Cambodia.

Because it's less developed, in a way. And, so, I met some really interesting people in [00:06:00] Cambodia through Fashion Revolution. They were, like, heading up the Fashion Revolution in Cambodia. And, and it turned out, one of the women who was running it, she needed someone to work. She was working in a small, very small garment manufacturer.

And, we got talking, and she was like, Actually, there might be a job for you working with us. So I went, I, you know, we, we were staying in Siem Reap and we went all the way down to Phnom Penh to meet them, had like talks with them. And so I ended up moving there permanently and I was there for like a year.

Wow. And so they, with them, I basically did what I do now. Um, they needed someone to liaise with clients and, uh, do their tech packs for them. And, and some clients needed, they had an idea, but they needed more help. And so doing the design development. So that's how I got into doing this and it was through doing it with them that then they said you know You could probably do this with other people as well.

I was like, oh, yeah [00:07:00] Yeah, and I so I did and I started working with people other people in Cambodia and then Uh, to, to, that wasn't enough for me to live and earn enough money to, to live there. So I also was teaching, they got me a job at a local college teaching fashion design, which was crazy. I was like, honestly, like I'm not qualified, but they don't have like a lot of creative teachers in Cambodia.

So they respect like experience. So they just, like, trusted that I could do it, and I was teaching, like, patting, cutting, and sewing, and Oh my gosh. Honestly, things that I, I shouldn't have been teaching, to be honest. Because, like, patting, I can do those things, but, like Yeah. You know, they're not my specialties.

Design, and tech packs, and all of that is my specialty, so Yeah. But it was an amazing experience, and it turned out, like, we moved back from Cambodia at the right time. Because I think we moved back [00:08:00] in 2000, the end of 2019. And so I set up like my website and officially launched my services. Wow, that's

Jasmine: so amazing.

I had no idea that you lived in Cambodia. That's insane.

Lottie: Yeah, and so I think it was really good for me because in a way, like, it brought me back to what I'm good at. Because at one point I was like, do I even still want to continue working in fashion? And I was sad at the idea of not because I have all these skills.

And I would have turned my back on them in a way and so it was really good to learn And it's like, you know, I feel like cambodia really helped me a lot You know, yeah,

Jasmine: you know, I think that's always the challenge with designers and people who work in the industry Is you know, we want to do it in a way that feels meaningful and purposeful And a lot of times there's not those opportunities, you know, especially Here in the states and where [00:09:00] you are and you know Fast fashion kind of dominates, and so it's so amazing that you were able to get that experience and do some important work that you really care about and really fueled you.

So I love that. Now, question for you. Why did you decide to take a supporting role for a brand, so support other brands, instead of starting your own brand? I'm curious.

Lottie: It's a really good question. Again, you've got such good, they're all good questions. Yeah, like, it's really interesting, you know, because when I was at uni, I've always been the person, you know, my grandma was like, oh, one day you'll be famous.

I was like, no, I've never wanted that. I always wanted to just be the person in the background doing the designs. And then, you know, I never felt like I needed to really. Be the, the big, you know, name designer or anything. And, yeah, like, so what I, and obviously when you work in the fast fashion side of things, [00:10:00] you are so unbelievably, like, behind the scenes, you know.

And so you just get very used to that. You get into, like, a habit of, in a way, like, understanding what people need, making it happen. And, and so, yeah, like, it's, it's just, it's not, the thought of starting my own brand isn't something, to be honest, well, it's, it's something I think about more now. But before, I just really always wanted to just design, I didn't, I didn't have to, I never felt like I needed to have my name to anything.

And I really enjoy, like, helping people. I really enjoy, like, what you call it, creative problem solving, you know? It's not necessarily a problem, but if someone comes to you and they say, ah, this is my idea. My, I love, like, my job is, like, Really getting to the, the core of what it is they're doing and, you know, figuring out how we can do the, the best job [00:11:00] possible and get the best product at the end.

And it is like, you just, yeah, it just becomes like a way of thinking that I've, I've always done. So I, I just, I really enjoy that. And I think it gives me a lot of joy, like seeing people. You know, doing those things. And everyone has, everyone I've worked with has such good ideas, you know. They're like, what they would do as a brand isn't necessarily what I would do, but I can get into their headspace and, you know, make it happen.

And some people have got very personal reasons why they start their own product. You know, maybe they've gone through illness and they want to create a product for people who are going through a similar thing to them, or I've worked with quite a lot of mothers who feel like they've lost their sense of identity after childbirth and they want to create products for other women who might feel the same.

Or, you know, it's just, you know, it doesn't have to be that, but some people want to create, you know, really [00:12:00] fun, organic kidswear that's made ethically because You know, they just want to know that the clothes their kids are wearing don't have any harmful chemicals in or haven't been produced by, you know, child labor and things like, you know, everyone has their own reason for starting something.

And I love hearing people's stories as well.

Jasmine: Yeah, I love that so much because I feel like we all need a role, right? Like, if we were all the designers or, you know, starting the brands, like, who is in the supporting role helping us bring those visions to life? So, I love that you have found your lane and you're like, you know, doing well in it and helping a lot of people do great things and bring great product to market.

Lottie: Exactly. And actually, on that, like, I feel really passionate about. playing to like my strengths. So the same, even if people say, Oh, can you help me like connecting to a fabric supplier? Uh, I often refer them to someone [00:13:00] who I know who that's their strength. You know, I'm very aware, like my, my strengths are like design development, like tech packs, teaching you about design and helping you understand it more.

And, and I do consultations with clients also like helping you understand the next steps. So how to get, like, good samples, how to, uh, work with factories. But, if there's someone else who I can refer someone to who I know will do a really good job, I prefer to just pass the work to them. Because I, at the end of the day, like, my passion is making sure, like I said, that the end outcome is the best.

I'm not gonna sit here and be like, I know everything, you know, and there's definitely, I work with print designers who are really, you know, if a client wants to incorporate print into their design, I like to bring them in because, yeah, I think I, I always want to be completely. Honestly, I'm a client of my own limitations, so if there's someone who can do it better, [00:14:00] let's get them in, you know?

Jasmine: And that's so important, I love the honesty, because no one can do everything well, and if anyone tells you that, then they're lying to you, because everyone does have a strength, and so I love that, and that segues me into the next topic I want to talk about, because You know, I work with a lot of designers and I often hear this question from people who want to start brands and they're like, I want to start a brand.

I have no design experience. Can I still start? And I feel like there's this myth that you're not able to be a designer. I mean, it's in the name, but still, you're not able to be a designer if you have no design experience. So I'm wondering if you can demystify that for us. Is that true? Like, do you need design experience to be a designer?

You

Lottie: know, it's, it's really interesting because I, when I work with clients, sometimes they'll say I've done a sketch and they're like, I'm so embarrassed to send it to you, like, [00:15:00] and I'm like, no, please send it because at the end of the day, I'm really good at doing technical designs because I mean, I've been doing it for 12 years, you know, and that doesn't even include like university and then, you know, doing it in A levels and GCSEs, which is like, I'm not sure of like the qualifications, like in the right, like, but that's like, you know, I was, I've basically been doing it for like, you know, a ridiculous long, like 16, like 17 years.

I've been practicing that. Yeah. So it would be crazy for you to, you know, for someone else to be like, well, I can't start my own brand. I have this really passion, like this vision and passion to start because I'm not as, you know, as good at, I can't put a technical sketch together. Because, trust me, when I started my job, like, I could barely do it either.

So it's just, it's because I do it every single day. Every single day I'm drawing technical [00:16:00] sketches, and designs, and, and I'm doing tech packs. So for me, it's, it's second, it literally is like, it's like second nature to me at this point. And I think, you know, because then if you basically, if you have that thought process.

Oh, well I need to be able to sketch it up. Then you go, oh, well then I need to do the pattern cutting as well. Oh, and then I need to like cut it all out. Oh, I need to learn to sew. I need to, oh, and now I need to like be an expert in marketing. You're like, no, again, exactly like what we just did before.

Everyone starting their own company, their own business will have their own strength. I think it's really important that they, that you as a, as a new brand owner plays to your own strengths and then, you know, you bring people in who can help you because if you wanted to do everything yourself, it would take probably like, you know, a decade to launch a brand.

And, you know, the designs you had in mind wouldn't be outdated, you'd have to start again. Exactly,

Jasmine: that's so funny. I think it's also a mindset shift, [00:17:00] because definitely, you know, I started my own brand before, and when I started, The curriculum that I had in my college was like, we had a brief overview of design, but it wasn't a design specific major, right?

So I'm like, okay, I can do the design myself and a whole bunch of other things. And yes, it took me forever to get things down. It's not my specialty. So what happens is like, You're trying to save money. You're trying to do all the things yourself and you end up making really costly mistakes where it was like Oh, I could have spent that money Hiring someone who is skilled in this area had things done my tech packs Perfect product coming out great off that but then what happens is like Oh now my arm holes are too small and I have to there's so much waste because I can't Use this product or sell this product.

And so I think people You know, the mindset of like trying to cut corners and save money and do everything yourself and trying to [00:18:00] articulate your designs. It seems like a smart decision in the beginning, but it ends up being really costly and can really be fatal to your business if it's not something that is Fixed quickly, you know what I mean,

Lottie: exactly.

And, and this is something we, we often say, and it's not something like we want to use as a scare tactic in any kind of way, absolutely trick people into working with you. You're like, you're just like, I, you know, I've had people who say, for instance, started as a new brand and don't work without tech packs and some factories say, Oh, we, we can do it.

And often what happens is they create like three rounds of samples and it's still not how you really wanted it. But that's because, like, factories aren't designers, they, they kind of just want to, they want to just make clothes, so, but the thing to do is really, like, if you give them a really detailed tech pack, they can take it, the concept is they should be able to look at it completely, [00:19:00] understand what you want to make, then make it, and with a really detailed tech pack, your first sample will probably be Like, your third sample, you know, that you would try and done without, and it, you know, I've never had it ever where someone's come back and be like, the first sample's come out really bad, you know, it just doesn't happen, because you've given them all the information, and then if for some reason it is wrong, you go, well, you've Actually, I've given you this information, you've not followed it, so can you please make a second sample and obviously I don't want to be charged for, you know, any of the mistakes made because I gauged you, like, in detail.

If you try and do it without and there's mistakes, you kind of don't really have a leg to stand on because they go, oh, we're just, you know, we tried our best, you didn't give us information. So you just, you start from a really good place. position of power, one that you understand your design well, because it's been really well mapped out and you can look at it and you can say, Oh yeah, I actually get it myself.

Then you can, you know, get a good costing [00:20:00] from a manufacturer because they know what it is that it involves. So you won't have any crazy surprises when they go, Oh, actually, it's going to cost more because we didn't realize you needed this, you know, your first sample will come back, you know, I'm saying pretty close to what you want it to be.

They'll always. You always have to prepare for like needing like small tweaks and changes. And yeah, and then the overall process hopefully will be simpler, more enjoyable. The thing that breaks my heart is I have had people come to me and say, Oh, I, this sample just aren't turning out right. I think I do need to now get a tech pack.

And that point they've already spent quite a lot of money. Um, and then yeah, and they're starting from a place of. Backtracking and I just that breaks my heart because you know, you just I know that that how disheartening that was feel

Jasmine: Yeah, and for those who don't know what a tech pack is, can you briefly explain like what that is?

Lottie: Yes, so it's basically like an instruction manual And for your garments [00:21:00] imagine like you're working with a factory that might not always speak You know, English would be their first language. So it's just good Um to like know everything down and like as clear detail as possible It's basically like a 10.

It can be up to like a 10 plus page document sometimes Making sure that everything is is covered in one place. It's great to have it all in one place So like I said, you can give it to the factory. They can look through it if there's any questions that they have After that, they can ask them, but the goal is to be able to give that to them and then to have like very minimal questions and they understand exactly what it is.

It's all in one place, so there's no like, oh, I didn't get that email or, oh, it's on a random thread, you know, it's just this very easy to understand visual document to make the process easier. And it's a very like industry standard thing, like even in fast fashion, you have tech packs. Um, but they are nowhere near as detailed because you can't, it's too fast a [00:22:00] process and they just need, you know, as many designs per day as you can physically do and make sure they're as detailed as possible because the goal is, you know, definitely quality over quantity and make sure that anything that is produced.

It's done as well as possibly in beans.

Jasmine: Yeah, that's amazing. And so this is something that you offer with your design, right? So when you do design services, you do the tech pack as well. And then the designer is able to grab that and give it to their factory. It's like, like you said, an instruction manual.

Yeah,

Lottie: it's almost like a lot of people say it's almost like, you know, when you get like. Flat pack furniture and you open up the instructions and it tells you how to make it. It's pretty much like that. Yes I

Jasmine: love that example. That's such a good example So for designers who let's say they want to work with a freelance designer or let's say they just don't have design experience And they want to bring their design to life and maybe they want [00:23:00] to at least get a rough sketch down or something To try to articulate that What are some tips that you have, like where do you even start if you have no background, you can't even draw a stick figure, but you know like in your head you have those ideas of the things that you want to create.

Like what are some steps or like tips for designers to kind of articulate that with a freelance designer or to try to get it on paper themselves?

Lottie: So I call it, like, the Frankenstein effect. So you, say for instance, like, you have one image that you found that you just love, like, the shape. You can, like, put that in a, you know, you can start building, like, a mood board for yourself.

Like Pinterest

Jasmine: or something, right? Yeah,

Lottie: you can do it on Pinterest, or you can do it, you know, you can print it out and stick it down. Or, you know, you could do it on any other computer program that you can pull images into. So yeah, you can pull in like this image that you really like of the shape. Then maybe you've got like one, Oh, I really [00:24:00] liked the neckline on that one.

Actually, I'll pull that one in. And then you're like, actually, I really love this sleeve on this one. And so it is putting like, bringing elements together and it's really good to keep it really visual. Cause design is so visual. And if you're working with someone like me and designer. You know, we're very visual people.

So if you say, oh, I kind of want the neckline to be like a v neck and then this, you know, I'm like, have you got a picture to reference that because a picture really does Speak like a thousand words in a way, but it removes what I like to do is I try and remove like the Ability to misinterpret what someone might want when I you know I've worked with design with the people that brand owners before and they're like, how how do you know?

Then you, what you create once I've, you know, invested in your services, how do I know that I'll get what I want? And I was like, because I don't just design without, I don't just like go for it and go, here you [00:25:00] go. That's it. You get what you're given. I like ask so many questions, like, you know, so even like a designer, they'll show me like they've collected images.

I'll then break it down even further, you know, because it's really important for me. To make sure that I am delivering what you want. No one wants to, you know, have that not very nice conversation. Oh, you haven't, you know. So I, yeah, I do everything I can to avoid that. And, and I, it's, it works. But yeah, and so for instance, Building that like kind of very visual idea, you can definitely have a go at doing a sketch for yourself as well.

And then, you know, bringing those ideas together in a bit of a sketch. It doesn't even have to be amazing, but it can just, anything to just help get it out of your head. Because I think people have a lot of ideas, this is what I've found, and they, if you don't get it, like, out in some kind of way, it never feels real.[00:26:00]

Or you just end up, yeah, just thinking about it too much. So if you use it any way you can get, like, onto paper or onto a computer screen, and write some notes about it even, and, you know, this is like a really good start. Um, and then actually, you know, I, I have like something on my, that I, I sell, it's called a collection planner, and it's, it's just something I have on my website, and to be honest, like, I don't really even promote it, but I should do.

Jasmine: I know, you should, you need to be helping these people out.

Lottie: But that's, that even goes, even, it's really good, it asks you loads of questions. It basically asks you those questions for the design, to help you make it really easy to make tangible steps. But it even does things like it asks you like, We're not asking questions, but it says, you know, who's your kind of target customer.

And that's something that I find a lot of does the people starting brands, sometimes very vague, like they'll say, Oh, you know, a rough age and a little, [00:27:00] like, you know, one sentence, but this will be like, you know, what, what's their hobbies, what are they like doing in their spare time? You know. What kind of thing is missing for them?

Is there a reason why you can solve that problem? Is there, you know, how will your, how will your product fill that need that they have? And it's just really thinking about the product in, in a really well rounded way. Um, And knowing that, yeah, making sure that when you invest in developing it, that you're, you're really confident that it is

Jasmine: what you want it to be.

Yeah. I love that question of like defining the target customer because I feel like once you, you can solidly identify who your target customer is, it really like informs every decision that you make in your business, including your design, right? Cause you're designing. for that target customer. So it gives you an idea of like, what are the, what is this person's needs?

You know what I mean? Like, is it a mom that needs something for breastfeeding? Is it someone who's on the go and needs pockets and things like [00:28:00] that? So I think those are all important things to think about. And not only from the perspective of like, okay, what do I like, like, what do I want to do? Because I think it's designers.

A lot of times we can step into it very selfishly where it's just like. Okay, like I love Long coats so i'm gonna make a line of long coats which I think yes You should be tied into your brand and it should be something you love and you're proud of But from a business perspective you also need to make money And so it's important that you are serving and you we want to solve a problem, right?

So it's important that you're you're serving your target customer really well Yeah, and the

Lottie: problem doesn't have to be anything really deep, you know, it can just be It can just be something like it can be anything but as long as you've kind of thought about what it is Your the purpose of the garment is a really big thing.

Um, and you know, that is one thing that I will say fast fashion Um fast fashion. No, there's one thing fashion fast fashion companies does well [00:29:00] is knowing their customer Like they will talk they will talk about their customer as if they're in the room like oh she does this on a weekend like wow she will love this kind of you know thing like they they have almost like a name for them and like a picture in their head of who they are and like every decision they make is like based around this this person and sometimes it can be really good to even break it down into just one person because thinking as a of a collective Customer, sometimes can be quite overwhelming.

But if you think of one person, Oh, even if it's someone who, you know, Who you know, and they're like, This is, I have a friend who's like, My exact target customer, you know. But then you can flesh it out and, you know, you can even think about it as a, as a singular person and then, and then as a group of people as well.

And it's like quite an easier way to think about it in a way, you know.

Jasmine: [00:30:00] Yeah, totally. It's so important. So let me ask you this. When you are working with designers and let's say they're like, okay, I need you to help me bring these designs to life. What does that process look like? What does it look like to work with you?

And how do you collaborate with designers to help them bring those designs

Lottie: to life? So the way I start is normally I'll get them on emails and I send them like a form to fill out, which is a few of these initial questions. So, you know, just like your information, who are you? And then, you know, what kind of thing are you looking to create?

So is it like a range of dresses or a range of swimwear range and how many pieces, yeah, who's your customer? Do you, and another question is a really good question. Like who are your competitors? And these aren't competitors. Like some people mistake. Like big companies is that So they'll they'll put like, you know asos.

I don't know if you have asos in america, [00:31:00] or

Jasmine: you know, we do We use asos. Yeah. Yeah

Lottie: But they'll say, you know something of that like Company size and what it's good to do is think of them. They're what you call like indirect competitors You like maybe but what you have to do is think of like very direct competitors.

So people who you see yourself and Selling alongside in like a boutique things like that. So if you look at what they're doing, they're really good places to start so I'll say like You know, who do you see yourself sitting alongside and then they'll put some names and then I can go check them out and start getting a real feel for what it is they're looking to, to create.

What kind of market they're looking to sell to. Are you looking to incorporate prints or graphics? You know, I just asked like a few basic questions. And then what happens is I set up like a, normally like a free 20 minute introduction call just so we can meet each other. So we can build like that trust, you know, that we, you know, [00:32:00] we can just get to know each other a little bit.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, and then what I can do is after that, I'll have like a pretty good idea of what someone wants to do from there on. It's like, I'll very, like I work and consultation calls into the project because I think having this like one on one time. It's really important, so we go through all the details of all the design, ask all the questions.

Then I go and put the designs together. So, I have like two kind of ways of working. One is where someone knows exactly what they want, they've got all the details. Really, like, I can go away and put that together for them, do the sketches, and I put together the design boards. I send them to the client and say, are you happy with everything?

If they are, I'm like, great. If they might say, oh, can we just tweak this a little bit here and there? And then we can go to the tech pack when they're happy with everything. Um, and then it's all finalized, or the [00:33:00] other way is some people know kind of what they want, but really want a bit of help pushing the project, doing what you call like design development.

So I'll give, I'll put together like a couple of options, maybe two to three options per design. And they can go, Oh, actually, I really like this one, um, the most. And that's really good because sometimes you. Yeah, like they might, like you said, design might not be your strong point, where it is mine, so they might just want that help to make sure they, maybe not like copying a, you know, a, a comment directly from something else, you know, and you're bringing your own.

And you bring like your own brand elements into it with, and we can like, you know, talk a lot about what that is and I, yeah, it's really good. So for instance, like if I do like three designs and maybe they're like, Oh, actually I really like the shape of this one. I really like the sleeve on that one. We can then combine those two designs to make a new design.

And then that thing, when [00:34:00] you're really happy with everything, I'll put together all of the final designs on the board so you can see them all together, colored in, and then we go to the tech back from there. So yeah, it's very, there's no, it's like very risk averse, you know, it's very like helping you really visualize what the final products will look like and as a range and how it will work together.

Jasmine: Yeah, it's almost like they have you on their team, but you're just.

Lottie: And I do like a consultation call as well, once I've set up the design boards to talk through everything and then once I've done the tech packs, we have another call to talk through the tech packs so you can ask any questions, you know, if there's anything that you don't understand, we can go through that as well.

And then I can also give tips on like the next steps on sampling, because I think that's when I started, I didn't have as many consultation calls built in. And I used to try and keep the cost just as low as physically possible, but [00:35:00] actually I've learned over time that having these, this contact time is so important because it just means That, you know, that everyone feels more confident on the next steps, you feel like you understand, you're learning, you know, you're learning about more design, you know, like I said, it's not your strength, you bring someone else in whose strength it is, but also it's really important to pass on the knowledge while you're working with someone.

As much as possible. Yeah, I

Jasmine: love that because I feel like you said you don't need to know how to do it, but you should have an understanding of how the process works for your whole business. And so I love that you are not only, you know, interpreting the ideas and the design. But you're also kind of educating and consulting and keeping this line of open communication so that brands can feel confident In you know what they're producing and that you are going to articulate their vision really clearly

Lottie: Exactly.

And also like another [00:36:00] thing i'm able to do is work like extra calls in And for talking about Sustainability and creating more sustainable products. I know like people often have like tons of questions. So I'm always, you know, I can always, I'm, yeah, I'm a total open book.

Jasmine: Yeah, that's so great because I feel like There's no reason in this day and age, and I think it's almost required to succeed in the fashion industry right now to incorporate sustainability in your brand somehow.

So it's so important that you have that. I think a lot of, like, designers or freelancers don't always keep that in mind. So the fact that you are, you know, making sure to offer that and educate on that is so important, too. And I'm curious, like, how would you say designers can keep sustainability in mind when developing their designs?

So I know it's like, not only about the fabrics that we're sourcing, but it starts off with the design [00:37:00] itself. So how would you go about that?

Lottie: Yeah, I mean, there's so many things you could say around that. It's, it's really interesting. I guess it's understanding that. Whenever we make has an impact, no matter what, you know, we're never going to have like a magical product that is, that doesn't have an impact at all.

So it's figuring out what impact you want that design to have. So I think sustainability and ethics are kind of like separate topics, but I think ethics, you know, so making sure like, you know, all the products are produced humanely is probably like top priority, because that's just should be like, it should be a base level, really.

It's not become that in the industry, though I think it's always really important to make sure that that doesn't get left out of the sustainability conversation. Absolutely. Yeah. And then secondly, it's like I said, making sure that it's a well designed product first. So working with a designer like is really [00:38:00] good for that.

It's making, you know, yeah, like it's, it's going to be, like I said, quality, like having all the finishes thought about, like that's super important. And then, you know, as well, like when we thought about cutting down on the sampling process. That's really not just good for budget, but it's good for sustainability because it means it's going to be less waste, less waste fabric, etc.

And, and so I was thinking about like, how can you reduce the, the need for more materials at every step? Can you think, in my textbooks I always put like, Use the most efficient lay plan when cutting fabric as possible for like minimal weight, but there's there's loads of incentives around now like People who make stuff from scraps so if you can send your scraps to people You know and for to do things with maybe, you know Someone or maybe you can put a call out saying does anyone need this?

There's also in in the uk There's quite a few companies who like shred fabrics and make cool [00:39:00] like Things from those or paper or, you know, um, yeah, it's really thinking about how to maximize on your All the materials that you you do use rather than thinking no one would want this, you know There's nothing I can do with it.

I'm just putting in the bin, which is what's done, you know in the past And also I think there's so many things we could talk about here. But also like Sustainability means different things to different people, and so it's figuring out what is important to you because You can't solve every issue with a product, but maybe there's one particular issue you're very very passionate about and basically figuring out how to work around that.

For example, if you're, it really, this is like a controversial example. I think [00:40:00] there's a big topic around like people who are interested in vegan fashion, for example. And so figuring out, as someone who is very passionate about veganism, what is the best product for people who want to buy into clothes that don't use any animal products.

So if that's your main goal, that's something you're really, you know, passionate about. That's, it's really good to build, not just build a product that solves that problem, but build a conversation around that. So, you know, create, that again, like attracts your target customer. And it builds almost like a community around what it is you're doing and bringing in people who are passionate about what you're passionate about.

And there's so many things that could, you know, you could do that. Like I know someone who creates products with a lot of female run artisanal [00:41:00] groups because she's very passionate about female forward design, like investing in women's skills in India, for example. Um, And it's not technically just purely environmental, like I think it's too, it's, it's too hard to separate all those things because often women are the people who care for the environment the most and you know, so then it's like, it's bringing in like the bigger picture and the reason, not just the reasons.

But like, oh, I want them to be more sustainable because that's the way it's going. It's like the heart into why you are passionate about sustainability, you know.

Jasmine: Yeah, I think and I think that's such a a good perspective because I don't think that you can do anything well that you're not passionate about.

So if something is, you know, really dear to your heart, you're really going to I feel push that really well and educate your customers on that really well As opposed to just doing something because you're supposed to do it Yeah, and I love your [00:42:00] approach too because it feels more doable not to try to tackle everything and I feel like brands Feel a lot of pressure to tack Tackle every area of sustainability or like not try at all because you know There's a lot of people who are really critical about people's business practices if it doesn't feel really perfect Or it doesn't feel really holistic in the way that they're tackling it But I think especially for newer brands that don't have the capacity to like hit all these points just starting somewhere and starting in An area that you feel really strongly about is such a healthy way to look at it

Lottie: Exactly, and like, yeah, there's no, there's no right or wrong answer when you're working from a place of real, you know, really getting deep into something, and I think that's the thing, like, when people talk about sustainability, often we can spread the topic really quite thinly.

So as smaller brands and as startup companies, I think the [00:43:00] biggest impact we can have is by going deeper into one specific part rather than trying to like tick every single box because that will happen over time and you can add things in or, you know, you can, you can address like topics, but I think as long as you can say, and like you say, like not just sustainability, but like purpose driven, if you can talk quite detailed about something, um, And people can connect to that.

I think that's the really interesting thing about purpose driven

Jasmine: fashion. Yeah, I love that. So, I like to ask people who are in the area of product, so whether it be product development, or design, or anything like that. In your opinion, what do you think makes a great product?

Lottie: Yeah, so, I feel like, in a way, it's, it's very simple.

You know, like, we can overcomplicate things, but actually But what I've said, like, throughout the [00:44:00] podcast is, like, you know, if you have something that's designed to fill a purpose, whatever that purpose may be, and it's designed well and it's good quality and it's made to last, then that's a great product.

Jasmine: Actually, the last person I asked that question said the same thing about longevity. So I think we are seeing a common theme here.

Lottie: And also there's this slow fashion, purpose driven fashion, like more sustainable fashion. And we've got more traditional fast fashion companies that still create like, you know, good products and they're not as cheap as people think they are, you know, everyone's like, oh, but, you know, slow fashion is so expensive, but you know, a lot of like these kind of mid level fast fashion companies still have, you know, good higher prices, but you're not getting the quality and the thought and the ethics per se in this other space.

And then you have, like, the other companies who are just, like, ramping up the speed even more and turning the [00:45:00] quality down even more and creating the, you know, really problematic, problematic part of the industry because they're just getting faster and faster and producing more and more. And then there's people in the middle, you know, who originally, like, did quite good quality stuff and they were okay.

They're, like, trying to keep up with, you know, these bigger companies rather than actually being like, oh, you know, let's stand our ground. Let's keep equality like, you know, and look to this side and so they're the, you know, These kind of like even faster than fast fashion, you know, really rapid fashion brands.

Yeah, I'm really creating a lot of issues um, and they're making it really hard for fast fashion companies to do better and Because they're like in competition with them Yeah, so our job is to stand Very like firm and stand and really stand out for all of the right reasons and give people a real alternative to buying and give people like a, a [00:46:00] reason to, yeah, maybe potentially spend a bit more than they might have originally done.

But I like to think of it in like a cost per wear idea as well because I have some clothes that I've worn hundreds of times, like no joke. I've had them for years and years. So I think, oh, you know, I'll use like my old pair of Doc Martens for an example. I think I got them like, when I was 21, and I wore them every day, like, must have been, I think, for like eight years.

Oh my god. So when, you know, and they were, they were like about, maybe like they were 150 pounds. I actually got them in America on holiday, so yeah, maybe they were like 150 pounds. But then if you think of the amount of times I've worn them, you're like, they've become like, you know, almost like cost per wear.

I feel like they're almost like in negative equity now, they're like, you're not paying me.

Jasmine: They're free. They were free. [00:47:00] That's hilarious.

Lottie: The shoes I would have bought to replace them normally because they didn't last as long Would have you know cost me more than that over time

Jasmine: Absolutely Absolutely, and I think like we need to do a better job to as brands of educating you know the customer about these things because yeah people they'll go and buy something that's You know, really affordable and it's like, okay, well, I'm getting a deal.

So I'm saving money, but yeah, you're, you're actually going to probably throw that product out quicker than you think. And it's not going to have that same longevity. So I think, you know, again, the price can be shocking for some people when they're like this sustainable product seems so expensive, but I think, you know, if it's something that you're going to wear all the time, it's like, this is so worth it because it's going to last.

And the last person I interviewed who said that. Made a good point too and saying like price is not inclusive of longevity [00:48:00] You know, so just because it costs a lot doesn't mean it's gonna last long either So I thought that was a good point to make too and I'm curious now that I brought that up Like how do we know like how do we know if it's gonna stand the test of time there?

Is there any indicators? In the design that will tell us like, okay, this might you know, this might last me a long time or how can I trust this brand?

Lottie: Well, that's a good question because I think there's two ways it can be designed a product can be designed for longevity So one is in the quality So in the fabrics and the fit would be included in that because say for instance, like if you get like a garment That's not great fitting You're not going to wear it as much which is obviously a lot of like Fast fashion clothing now, to cut corners, they do, don't do as good fits as maybe before.

So yeah, it's like, fabric fit, those are like, [00:49:00] what you would say cause longevity in terms of quality. But also, I think it's really important to think of like, longevity in terms of the styles itself. So, you know, you have some things that are designed to go out of fashion quite quickly. You have some things that are designed to be like, very, very timeless.

And so it doesn't have to be like, you know, something extremely timeless to know that it will still last because it's as long as you're, you can still like look at trends and design around trends. And as long as you're designing something that, you know, you can say in terms of the quality, in terms of the actual design itself and the style that it's, it's made to last.

I think there's two, like, if you design things in that way, then you know, you've got, again, a good product that's going to last in terms of. Style, longevity, and quality, functionality, longevity. Yeah. I know, you know, often even if you're buying clothes online, I think they [00:50:00] provide really good photos and you'll be able to get like a good idea, you know, like a lot of air company photos, you see them

Jasmine: and they're like, Yeah, trying to hide every detail of the garment.

Yeah, you

Lottie: know, and they're like not actually showing what it looks like on the bottom, you can see every picture they've got their hand on their hip, you know, and like bringing it in. It's like, oh, what's going on there? Like, why don't you show the garment,

Jasmine: you know? Yes, which is why Front back product shots that are normal are so important.

So Lottie, what would you say for aspiring fashion entrepreneurs? You've given us so much wisdom already, but like, what would be a piece of an encouragement you would give to fashion entrepreneurs looking to start? That's a good

Lottie: question. Question again. Yeah, I think a lot of it is playing to your strengths.

So I have some friends who, a lot of friends who are business owners, and some of them are like amazing at organization, you know, that's just, they can put like a [00:51:00] spreadsheet together, like no one's been there. So, like, is it, is your strength, like, you know, creating a really strong business plan, or are you really good at marketing?

I think, like, if you're starting a brand, you definitely need to feel like you have. A thing that you're, is going to make a part of the process easier, whatever that part of the process is, maybe you're really good at, you know, connecting with people and whatever that is, I think notice that and really big yourself up on that, you know, and, and make sure you're, you are playing to that strength because your strengths will be other people's weaknesses and, you know, vice versa.

And I, so, yeah, I think. It's a, it's a lot of mental work as well as learning and you know, there's a lot of mindsets around it. So I, I think it's very important to, yeah, if you're, but you know, if you know, if you know people [00:52:00] as well, say for instance, my partner's like a photographer, so I'd be like Obviously, yeah, can you help me?

And, and ask for, ask for help from people who you know can, can give it. Yeah. If there's anyone you know who can give you some advice, and then, yeah, and then the rest of the time, it is like knowing that you will have to invest to grow a brand. And so invest in the right places where you feel like you, you can get the most from that investment and And yeah, and also like follow your instincts on who you work with because one, one thing when I say about working with a factory and working with manufacturers is like every, you know, people can say, well, can you just give me a manufacturer that I can work with and you go, no, not really, we can give you like an idea of what really good practices are and we can give you a few different people to reach out to, but what might be good for you For one person might not necessarily be good for another.

Maybe one factory has a really short communication style, whereas you might be the kind of person who [00:53:00] needs a bit more of a friendly reLottieonship with a, with a person. So yeah, like as well, like try your best to make it an enjoyable process by working with people you really enjoy working with as well.

Jasmine: Yeah, so good. One more question for you. I forgot to ask this, and I think it's so important to know. So, for someone starting a brand, once again, and they want to work with you or a freelancer in general, how far in advance should they reach out? You know, they maybe have a timeline to launch on a certain date.

Like, what does that look like? Because I think sometimes, Like timelines are kind of underestimated when it comes to fashion and like people have the idea and they want to like launch as soon as possible, right? So like, what would that look like?

Lottie: So yeah, like I get that question a lot from brands and I think I know a brand who when they come to me and I say, Oh, when are you looking to launch?[00:54:00]

And if they say, for instance, it's spring, maybe it's like January of this year. If they say spring, summer 2024, which is this year, I'm like, Hmmmm. Impossible. Yeah, no. That sounds great. There's no nice way of saying it, but that's like, quite like a, you know, I know that in your, you know, you, like you say, you have an idea and you want it to come to life, but it's not realistic because say, for instance, we need to work on the designs, you need to source the fabrics, you need to find a factory that you want to work with.

They might, you know, each one of those people might have their own lead times. So the, the fabric suppliers might have three weeks lead time to send you the fabrics. You know, and I think it's, you know, the manufacturers might have like X amount of lead time. They might be quite busy and for instance, for myself, I get a lot of people reaching out and say, I want to start as soon as [00:55:00] possible.

And obviously as a freelancer, you want to be, you want to work with people as soon as possible as well that I might have bookings a month in advance. Um, so then I would be like, okay, yeah, we can definitely start my earliest availability is, you know, next month, for example. So yeah, you, in an ideal world, everything would be able to be done instantaneously.

But it's, there's a lot of pieces in the puzzle that need to work together. And to do that, we need, often, like, there just needs to be the, the patience of getting it done right. Not rushing, because the rushing is, like, where we cut corners, and then the rhetoric for pro doesn't end as well. Also, like, time, overly, like, time precious, like, projects.

It's sometimes like when mistakes can be made, or, you know, people don't check things. So I think as a, definitely as a, a, a starting brand, I think it is so important to give yourself time [00:56:00] to fully understand the process that you're going through. To go through it without putting yourself under loads of pressure.

And then by the time you come to launching, you won't, you know, you won't be like completely stressed. You'll hopefully be like, you know, you'll be built in that spaciousness to make sure that everything's done right. So it's not even just from like, you know, service providers perspective being trying to like be unhelpful.

I think it's really good for a new brand owner to understand that the more time they can give themselves. The, the better it will be for them too. But we say generally, if you're gonna put like a, a time on it, I say from having your designs finalized and tech packs, I'd say I'd wanna give someone like a minimum of six months.

And so if you don't have your designs, maybe you need to be thinking like a year in, in advance. Which technically is like what fashion used to be like. You were always designing a year in advance. And it, so it's, it's, a lot of people [00:57:00] now they look at what's going on and they see how quickly things would turn around and think that that.

Is normal and it's not Yeah

Jasmine: I think especially because you know, we've kind of shifted where not as many brands are like selling wholesale and they're doing direct to consumer And they're not using that traditional wholesale calendar. So they're like, you know, maybe producing in drops or like, you know Have new collections come out every month or whatever it may look like but I think that's a good rule of thumb to six months to a year and then depending on You know what your plan is how you plan to sell it and distribute your brand and all of that And I know that's kind of shocking to some people because they want to hurry up, but I promise you like If you try to launch too quick, you're going to start cutting corners, and you're not going to be happy with the collection you produce because you're just rushing things.

And, you know, if you were to want to start selling to retailers or whatever it may be, I think it's so much harder to pivot later than just [00:58:00] starting off in a, like, healthy schedule, right?

Lottie: Yeah, and as there's a new brand, it's really, you know, say for instance, like if you've If you've got your suppliers, you know, right, I'm reordering fabric that I really like, I, I've got my supply, I, I've got my factory.

Once you've already built that reLottieonship with them, with your first, you know, range of designs, it will, the process will speed up over time. It will never be like, you know, crazy fast, you always have to plan ahead. But it, it, it can speed up from that. It's just, I'd say like on your. You're in your first round.

Give yourself more time than less.

Jasmine: Yes, that's such good advice. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you about for like 10 hours about this topic. There's so much to unpack. And I'm so excited because, you know, you have taught an amazing lesson on sustainable design and tech packs in our Make Good Fashion Academy that's launching next month.

[00:59:00] So if anybody's looking for more, you can tap into that. But also, what if if people just want to you directly and reach out and start working with you. How can they find you?

Lottie: So on Instagram, I am Lottie Woods design. So that's Lottie spelled like L O T T I E. And then my email, which anyone is more than welcome to get in touch to my email is hello at Lottie Woods design.

And then yeah, my website is. lottywoodsdesign. com.

Jasmine: Amazing. Thank you so much, Lottie. It's been amazing talking to you and getting your perspective on design, sustainability, and all the things. So thank you so much for being here.

Lottie: Oh, it's been awesome. I've loved it. Like, yeah, this is my favorite topic. We

Jasmine: will see you next time.

Amazing. Bye. Bye.